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Progress at any price ?

No it's not for me.

I found the video clip quite disturbing, though I am aware of how many years animals have been used for experimentation and both sides of the ethical argument.

Good question. I think the good will outweigh any negative results.

Jarak,

Why is it that you think that please?

I would like to have responses that are slightly more substantial than this, since it has the potential for enormous ramifications on the very nature of 'man'.

I read a paper some 10 years ago about similar experiments on humans and several years ago there was a man who "hooked up" to his computer.

Right now we have:
Basic Neural-Interface
Automated eyes up to 1000 pixels
Automated ears
Automated hearts
Automated limbs
Grown- skin, ears, cardiac muscle, intestine tissues, nerves and blood.

As amazing as surfing the web and automatically writing your thoughts on to a computer would be it raises some major ethical issues.

One day ,perhaps, we will all get implants and we will be connected to the entire human race and "online" using Microsoft Human 3.0 software. But what happens if you don't have the money and can only get version 2.5 or you're rich and just upgraded to 4.0? If you thought racism was bad just wait until you can't get a job because you don't have the right processor.

All of the advancements we have made have been under the guise of medicine and helping people but one day the choice will be made to "get connected." How do we act then?

Not to mention the fact that 75% of all emails are spam and viruses, I don't think "Norton Antivirus" could protect us from cyber/neural death.

If the technique can be perfected and adapted to the human brain, this would be a major medical breakthrough and able to help a lot of people.

Personally I think it is great to see how far we have come with the means of AI and other things.

The part I am having some difficulties with is that they use animals to experiment on. It is not that I am a greenpeace fan, save the animals thing, but they have no choice.

If these items are used for the soul purpose of assisting those who need them, then it is a grand ideal, but people will have the tendancy to abuse the technology, thats just human nature, in the end these advances may cause more problems than they are worth, I mean can you imagine an aggressive angry person having a bionical arm or legs, how deadly would they become, and waht about these chips, the potentail of a computer virus being placed into ones mind, silently sending subliminal messages to ones mind, yes there is a lot of good to these ideals but also a great deal of danger.

Xzavier,

Might this article be about the man you reference?


In regards to the ethics questions, I don't feel that it will be a new racial divide, but more of an affirmation of the already existent class struggle.

The same problems apply between education for example. The rich families can afford the private schools and the best tutoring, where the working classes must rely on the state school system, which as we have seen, is a complete disaster in many deprived areas.

I do agree that often, these advances are marketed for the benefits of all, but 'all' rarely see anything affecting their lives. Cloning, for example, which you mention, has already had a commercial market open up for those who have a high disposable income to buy 'fresh parts'. Something of a lead on from the black market in body parts from cadavers.

Ultimately, yes, I agree with you that people will effectively be left with little real choice but to take up the connection to a global web, since even now, it is increasingly more difficult for both states and the individual to succeed in life, without having access to the same technology and resources as the rest of the 'developed' world.

The virus and hacking issue is a major one. Could it end up with some form of techno-psychic warfare?

I think it would be rolled out in closed network military and government applications first, just as the 'net was, before eventually succumbing to commercial demand. Money rules and this is pretty cool by the standards of the current and probably future generations. Will those future children grow up with the cybernet being just another part of life? I reckon so.

I feel that this technology might be useful for individuals that cannot communicate by any other means but I personally don't feel that I would want to be "jacked in" to anything. Technology is great but there is something to be said for reading a book and free will.

Yes it is the same man STABB.

In regard to race and social status problems, today we have a choice, to be racist or not. Once we start upgrading there may be no culture of equality to let us know it's ok to be different.

Techno-psycho warfare seems like a good title for a song :) Unfortunately I see a real probability of that. The military (at least the US') is around 10-20 years ahead of current civilian technology so it is logical things would start and end with them.

The issues that raises is government interference in, not only our lives, but thoughts. Once again it will be to protect us from "neuro-terrorism" but we all know how that turns out.

I see great potential in humanity and our ability to create but at the same time I have the force of history to look at. We never do the right thing until much suffering.

I believe making people cybertronic is slightly un-ethical. Retinal implants and implants that help people live is worthwhile. But putting chips into brains so that one can think and write is wrong. If anything were to go wrong it could be deadly.

Bringing in another side to the same coin- what of the religious point of view. I mean… men is created in the image of God. I am not taking this into a religion bashing but trying to point out the view of going against nature.

We have so many medical advancements today- when will it end? When will we say its enough?

If I was 65 and you told me you can replace my heart, I can live another 40 years. Knees goes out? Replace. Hip? Replace. And it will just keep going till you can be rebuilt- if you have the money. Just how old do people want to live to be? If I had a son who was ten- and they told me he would be able to walk, move when he had been unable to- you bet your butt I would want it for him. He has all his life in front of him.

I can see great things coming from this, but have to admit the video made me cringe. And it was not just from the animal being used.

I find bionics to be very interesting as an invention which is simplifying the interaction of the human mind with its environment.

You don't need to use your body.

To explore cyberspace with my mind only using such a short cut to access it certainly makes things more simple in that way in which I do not need to use my hands to access, or using my hands to write, which are anyway being used by the mind to execute a certain order, action.

It leaves me to think that these bionic implants would render me inactive, but on the other hand they would allow extreme ease of manipulation over highly advanced machines, and their functions, warlike with immense power, or intellectual with super intellectual ability, so I might use those instead of my body. I leave something, and I get something.

The bionics which would enable us the world and experience that of a six million dollar man, and similar, certainly will bring up the human potential when it comes to raw strength, acrobatics and athletics, speed, senses, physical exhibition in general, and those placed to the right place, of enhanced memory as well, super memory.

I believe these are nullifying my previous statement of being rendered inactive physically, since they are enhancing the active physical body and its mechanisms.

More quality the bionic implant, more stronger will the ability get.

It turns that there is a perfect way of becoming super competent, to reach a perfection of expression, trough bionics, in both ways in which aware humans tend to express them selves, and that is intellectually and physically, as they are combination of these two.

On the other hand, I find it not to be right as well, since I believe and tend, that all perfections should be achieved with that natural inborn potential, and that is the energetic being of every human, which is a part of him, as well the environment, universe.

I believe that the omnipotent energy being should be discovered, and tapped in to, and that way the ability should be mastered, so that way the mastery over the material would be reached, and there wouldn't be a need for bionic implants, since those are just material misconception as well, and once the misconception of the material perception is understood, the misconception in the mind will dissolve as well, mastering over the matter, and being all trough it, as well trough the bionic implants, or the content they surf.

Nevertheless, they do seem to be very useful and astonishing, in this period of human intellectual and physical development, and they will contribute greatly in making the life of humans very easy, which will leave them in a feeling that they are omnipotent in their expression, untouchable.

I believe that the biggest most precious use of bionics would be that one in curing the deceases, and even granting those life forms which underwent cyborgisation, immortality to a certain virtual value.

All together I believe in personal purity of ones being, to achieve any goal, to overcome any personal disability, mental or physical, with ones being only, not with a prosthesis.

I believe one is truly powerful and accomplished when reached such a ultimate state of ones being, mind.


I compliment the today's minds and how they fight with style, even if it is only cold steel that is keeping them floating.

Ethically this can cause some of the same issues that cloning could produce. We all become almost cookie cutter people and there is no true originality.


Technology rules the world now and to think this may be the modern day fountain of youth. This is looking to be the only way to live "forever".

yes it's interesting but you also have the religious fanatics that will say it's not natural and if God(s) wanted to have machine parts etc in us he would have created us that way.

i would love to see what scientists can come up with in the future it is deffinatly a break through in science

The clip is most certainly disturbing, but I am all for having things tested and improved for the future of mankind. I am impressed.

This could be very helpful to people that need something like an arm leg or eye, etc. I just fear this will lead to building a race of these creatures

They also have a chip they put in pigeons heads, and they can control its flight path. Push a button and it will turn left, or angle right.

I think that is way cool!

I suppose, as with anything, some criminal or lesser moral mind will come up with a way to try to control others or gain power with it. *sigh*

It seams to me that, it is simply an improved pegleg.

Is a person who picks up a tree branch and uses it as a walking stick on a long journey unethical because he is using a tool? How about the man that carves walking sticks, peg legs, etc.

I see no issue with the application of science towards medicine, even from a "sanctity of the human body" point of view. Religion and science, in my opinion, are not disharmonious; what I do have a problem with is the current medical practice of fixing symptoms instead of actually being concerned with health.

(RANT: Although I am sure drug use has it's place in recovery; I feel that anyone who partakes of it consistently is no wiser than someone who buys snake oil.)

As a tool for industry or improved standard of living, I find that it is no more unethical than is our dependency on money. There are some few people who will use it as a source of power over others; there are those who will acquire dependencies to it in way that are inimical to spiritual growth (eye of the needle); and there are those who will transcend the inherent dangers of possession and the ease of life, that every advancement offers to the human race, as a temptation from spiritual matters.

Temptation shall always exist, it is not the duty of religion to remove temptation, but to give us methods for overcoming them, which is, in my opinion, the Devine intention.

No I don't think implanting technology into the brain is any more or less unethical in any way than your cellphone.

I was thinking more about the chips, could these be used for locating people, and if so would it be a violation of a persons privacy, not to mention hacking them and perhaps even veiwing what the person is seeing? I see some serious reason for concern due to no matter how secure a program is there is always a way to hack past it.

I think the developments in bionics are amazing and wonderful,it gives hope to those whom have lost limbs and other body parts. How could anyone deny another person the chance at starting a new life with better and more life like bionic limbs?

Im with Singora I think science is going a bit to far and is for sale but on the other hand I suppose it is good to hear if u are missing a limb or something like that

They are playing god. yeah it would be nice if you dont have a limb to be able to have a robotic one, but is that what lifes for, the hardship is what lifes all about.

One of the biggest ethical questions is if we actually put our intelligence "thoughts/mind" into a computer, what is to stop us from actually attempting to remove ourselves from our bodies to create actual immortality as long as we are not deleted?

You could effectually become less than human if you left your body completely behind. Some might consider this the next evolutionary step in that we move beyond the physical barrier, however changing a biomechanical machine in for just a mechanical one does not seem to be a forward moving step.

I agree with you completly borked, and thank you for your remarks.

I noticed that people are finding bionics to be of great help to those wich are crippled, and are in need of replacement.

I find that to be useful as well, but I would chose one other thing over that, and that is complete limb regeneration.

Today, scientists are trying and understanding how to unlock the locked human potential of total limb regeneration when it comes to amputated and lost limbs, and they are taking a salamander lizard as an example for that study.

Salamander can regenerate any limb, or his tail, and scientists have understood already that a human has the same potential, but it is somehow dormant, non active.

Scientists are working on it in order to reawake that process in humans, where the total limb regeneration of lost limbs would be possible.

Once the regeneration of limbs in humans is discovered, I would personaly always go for that if in need, than for a bionic replacement.

It just seems more natural to me, it seems more right.

It is that the bionic implants would enable a huge improvement when it comes to phisical ability, and therefor they might seem as much better option than just simple limb regeneration abillity, but scientists today are working on both robotics and genetics, so I do not see why the super abillity wont be tapped in to with time by excessive study and understandings of human genetics, and with that knowledge improving those, wich would result in this super strenght, super memory, speed, and reflexes, and many other abilities.

I chose genetics over roboticsbionics.

UTAHVAMP,

RFID tracking chips are already in widespread commercial use.

I have heard of companies which offer sub-dermal implants, aimed at governments and technocrats, and even criminals.

There is a sizeable amount of criticism posted in online articles that you can find to read. There is a definite scope for abuse of this kind of technology and while it offers significant benefits to the convenience culture, it does leave civil liberties at risk.

there is nothing new about cybernetic implants - pacemakers have been keeping hearts beating for decades. would you seriosly turn one down if it couuld save your life? but why stop at replacement parts? why not extra prts or extr bodies? wouldnt it be saferfor asdtronauts or deep sea divers if they could operate a robot body remotely fom a place of safety? if the range could be increased, then maybe we could walk across deserts or climb mountains without leaving our armchairs.

Xzavier,

The 'choice' is the major factor here, I agree. Where will the masses who cannot get ahead in life be without their id chip?

It may serve to further polarise the camps of those who celebrate nature and the 'old ways' of living, returning to hunting, small scale farming and allotments and commune societies, and the techno-phreaks who will embrace any new gadget or system which provides an easier lifestyle.

The potentials are massive and largely unexamined as to the effects it would have on self-perception, how we exist as humans, so expressions of human nature, such as war, will inevitably be impacted, but to what degree, we can only speculate.

Leading on from government interference and neuro-terror, which is an eternal battle in any case, what of the positives, such as having a wireless and instant method of communication using only the thought to drive a signal across the cybernet and to another person, could this not be likened to a form of telepathy?

alixaryon,

I very much enjoyed reading your very well considered and presented opinion. I share your sentiments on many points.

It would be a dream to have human conciousness reach a level of understanding and ability to perform feats for which we currently have to use tools, but at the end of that road, there is no money to be made, since our thoughts are free (one could argue that point on a tangent of subliminal control), so the exploitation of technology will be pushed harder than would metaphysical education.

There are genuine advantages to having replacement limbs and organs for those who are unlucky enough to suffer accident or disease, but where will a line be drawn, if at all, when those who can afford it, could augment their perfectly healthy bodies?

digression:

'some criminal or less moral mind will come up with a way to try to control others...'

It's called media manipulation Jamie

FMRL,

The difference in his case between using a 'tool' and an implant, is that it is still a manual device, which has no real integrated connection to the body, where an implant directly receives neurological transmissions from the brain.

It will be the ability to control technology with only the mind, as alixaryon said, bypassing he need to even move to achieve something physical.

Many would argue that the capitalist system is fundamentally unethical, but that aside, when is it morally acceptable to implant a tracking device, for example?

What if such a thing were to be inserted into every child at birth?

And on a slightly different note, as others have mentioned, it seems to be a problem for the testing on live animals, who have no say on choice to be guinea pigs.

Let condemned prisoners have the option of being guinea pigs.

infringing civil liberties or convenience? by the time the technolog is cheap enough to be applied to everyone, it will be wanted. supposing you colapse in the street and someone has stolen your wallet? who will know whether you have a heart condition, are a diabetic, epileptic, allergic to antibiotics etc. who knows what your blood group is? sure you could wear a bracelet or tag around your neck - but if a convenient invisible impant can contain al the medical data needed to save your life, which can be read by a hand held medical scanner carried by every ambulance driver or pliceman, isn't that better? already many people have their pets tagged with implants so they can be returned if they go missing. the fact that the implants that carry your medical data also identifies who you are should only be a worry to criminals?

man and machine will become one - it is the way e are evolving, it is our destiny - good or bad. everyone gets a free upgrade. upgrade is mandatory. you will be like us.

If they can create a droid that I can control with a chip inplanted in my mind and send him to work for me, of course being able to see everything transmitted back, so I would be there, but not at the same time, that would be some interesting technology, but as this type of technology progresses the human race will no doubtedly become more and more lazzy and perhaps ina sence the race will regress vs progress.

like in hollywood where plastic surgery is all the rage and is addicting i believe getting these cyber inplants to build us up could turn into the same chain of events in hollywood with plastic surgery we will want bigger faster and better more more more

Thank you STABB666.


The line, where would the line be drawn?

It seems like there is no line to anything in this reality wich we inhabit and reflect, but the line it self depends on the level of knowledge, wich is creating these opportunities, these lines, in the field of science, or many other fields, and that knowledge is ever growing with the evolution of the human intellect, and new perceptions of the world with this newly gained knowledge, and wich is again deciding the line it self, and where it would be drawn, and how.

There are many possibilities, many lines, to be discovered in this world, and applied to our own perceptions, and understandings.

Where this line would be, or exactly what sort of this line is, depends only on our hearts, what is ticking in side, or how we understand this reality as a universal function.

I am sure that the bionics will bring alots of relief and happiness to those wich desperatly need it, and to those wich see that level of expression as a perfection for them selves, and that would be their line for them. I believe as well that the perfection of genetics would play the same role equaly good.

As well, many other individuals would draw their own line, their own sort, in that sense in wich they feel most fitting according to their knowledge and belief, and I believe as well that that differing line would reflect it self in another field, sort, of scientific expression.

I believe that there are many lines of perception, and the world is a process of expression for it self to decide all of them, in many different ways in understanding the reality.

That is the Universe.

I believe that none of these sciences is perfect, they are made out of elements, and those constantly change, as it is the nature of the universe, but I believe that the most perfect state is the awareness of the super-conciousness, the awareness of the super energie being, the one wich is trough every form, trough every science, with every form belonging to it, and with that an everlasting perfection of awareness and expression, with no ailments, with no need to repair, beacuse nothing can be broken, nothing needs a cure, beacuse it cannot be sick.

That is the line in wich I believe, and find to be most right.

The science is amazing, the opportunities, the abilities, but as well, there is so much more than that, so much more than becoming a mere tool of use, and the way the science is expresing it self today and its achivements associating them with human being in that certain way, is I am afraid, leading exactly to that. To becoming a dead tool, or a more functional tool.

I believe that exactly that line shouldnt be forgotten.

The line of our selves, and who we are here as human beings, and that we should keep evolving in that right spirit the way we were created in the first place.

The artifical limbs are ok for those wich need them, but the whole science today with its discoveries threatens to alter the whole mind function of a human, and its nature, its original setting, and how it perceives, wich in mind will twist the original evolution process, and reduce the free thinking, live perciever, in to a signal executing machine, depriving it from its original form, from its original intended course of evolution.

I think it is another important line to understand.

consider this, the unives is turning, and is made up of galaxies, which are themselves turning, lke wheels. within these galaxies, solar systems also turn like wheels, doesit not seem that the universe is one huge machine is there not a simple fundamental truth in mechancs?

God is a machine, and we are all but cogs in that great machine. when we become one with the machine we will understand the Deus Ex Machina and achieve enlightenment.
Computer loves you
Computer is your friend
trust Computer

I'm quite interested to see how far it will go. Possibly with the advancment of said technology in the future it could lead to easier ways to combat diseases or possibly help insofar as medical opperations.

Even other uses, like you said in your first post Stabb, like being able to explore a cyber space with just your mind would be quite an enjoyable thing to do.

These developments are tremendously exciting, and people need to have informed discussion about them. As with stem cells (Bush signed into law policy limiting scientific exploration with them in America), the debate continues. Whether we can influence national policy re. scientific innovation at the grass roots level is debateable, but I'd rather be in on the action than not.

The applications are endless, and the potential for human benefit or harm is ever-present, but it is clear to me that in the future, human bodies will be riddled with cyber devices.

I can see the benefits in this technology as we are already enjoying many of them. Artificial limbs and insulin pumps along with the other devices are enriching peoples lives more and more. However there is a huge potential for abuse that frightens me plus we are moving farther and farther away from nature as we wire and build ourselves into technology. I feel this is wrong.

I also feel that the costs will create an even larger divide between the haves and have not’s and its more than big enough now to be causing civil unrest.

I think if this technology goes very far we’ll find people trading in their own perfectly good parts for the new ones that are faster and stronger. When will it start to be too much? How do we stop ourselves?

I would hope the technology would be withheld from anyone for whom it’s not medically necessary but then you still have the cost issue to deal with.

I heard about this story and thought...wow its amazing what science can create today. I mean this could really help our Vets who have lost limbs. I see no controvery to it. I mean unles people have a thing against being a 'bionic man/woman'

STABB, The positives are endless but many of them can be achieved by humans without the use of technology, such as telepathy.

It could also be used to allow all economic transactions, law suits, education and communication happen in a matter of moments.

I am actually very excited about this type of technology and I look forward to possibly going "online" myself. I feel that with the proper wisdom this could push us all the way into Homo Excelsior and in time make flesh and blood pointless.

I agree with you on everything you said karnstein, about the universe, and what you have said about computers as useful tools wich have a unique role there where we still are not strong in the sense of things wich we cant recognise thanks to our limited potentials wich is just in development far from stability, and the lack of that would be assisted in the realization of our selves by the advanced technologies being created, assisting us there where we are weak, as I said before, all the way in to the concsious realisation of our selves.

They will help us understand a great deal, as long as we use them in the right way.

I do not know are the things going to be exactly like that, beacuse those wich are designing the society have many other ideas in plan, and to properly use such gadgets in right way, is not always the only way how to use it.

The post wich vamfan36 posted might easily turn in to reality trough some part of the future.

This is the worrying part of this whole idea of the augmented species, wich has many augmentations all over its body and brain, and with that it is easily controlable.

Like the chicken with the chip in its brain, wichs path of movement has been influenced, but the chicken thought that it made that decision by it self.

But we might as well evolve in to a brilliant race of bionic enhanced augmented people wich know what is wrong, and what is right, and who we are, and how to express our selves in truth.

I believe that all this depends on those wich are distributing this kind of evolution as means of expression among our species.

It depends on their intention.

Would they use the gift of knowledge to brilliantly promote perfection, natural perfection, free learning and expansion of our being among the people, or are they going to use it to control the populations in that subconcsious way having access to our minds where we cant even feel it and we would think that that is our choice, so they can obtain their own goals, perceptions, and ideas in this universe wich is surrounding us.

I think this is the whole ethics question of this sort of a evolutionary process.

I think we will see both. The world is build out of the Ying, and the Yang, and according to those balances it acts as well.

I think it mainly depends on how much people understand what they would accept as part of them selves in the future.

The fact is that the people barely understand the ways of society, but they go and live with the flow.

hey stabb666 this makes for a very interesting read but I have two questions.......

1.If what you say is true then do you think cybernectics could take over one day I mean the created take control over the creator?

And all so it seems what you say might be hard for some to understand because I noticed this thread is not getting stump posts lol.

And in another say 40 yrs will we have robots who walk and can portray humans?

Wolfkiller: I'm going to go on and answer your questions since I'm here haha*take that Stabb!* lol

It's not a question if they can but will we let them. In the next 2-5 years we will have computers that can out process/think humans. Humans can process around a trillion bytes per second, these new computers will be just over that (in 2-5yrs).

One of the biggest issues we have is making sure we can pull the plug while still advancing our technology.

As for robots being like humans, they're only about 10 years away. Some of the research models already look a hell of a lot like people. Add in processing speed, new aesthetic features and a good power source and you'll have roboman.

So do you believe there could ever be anything like I robot or skynet???

In otherwards could something go wrong because if they are smarter then use then that means they can think of things we can't so therefore they could think of a way to override our power no??????

This idea of in the next 10 years of the abilities of man and machine are what concerns me about the loss of our humanity. At what point when interacting on a web site do we loose the ability to interact in person?

The idea of putting a chip in for a beating heart is not much different from a pacemaker. Yet when the biomechanical being is altered so much that little of the original biology remains, I still say we are playing with Pandora's box.

To me it is no different than using the pig DNA to grow human body parts. We still do not know how that will alter our gene pool as many of the recipients were in the teens and 20's when given the treatments. If you alter a person's DNA you are also altering their immunity and basic building blocks. Truthfully I see little difference between this and altering our natural bodies to interact more fully with computers. However that said I do not think it will create the same potential for disease- my concern is how it will detach us further from our bodies itself. Perhaps it will connect us more- either way it will be a major change in how we perceive and are perceived.

I must admit I have split opinions on this matter.
1 is awsome techno wow wow wow let's do home work while laying on my back relaxing, lets bring this essay while I do dishes, or cool I will send an email to grandma while I am doing the vaccuum

But the second one says: no way, what if I get a "hacker" in my brain? will this destroy me? Or will it simply make me do things he/she wants? Will I end up so "technoholic" that I wont have a life anymore? And while I drive if I get a tehcno glitch? Will it prevent me from crashing in the next car or vice versa?

I think the mind is a place that should not be invad by any technology. I mean if we get to lazy to simply press on a cluck of a mouse............get rid of the pc.

This is another example of where the boundries of man and machine are becoming blurred.

How many of us can live without our cell phones, computers, cars, televisions,or mp3 players anymore?

I am struck by the other image I saw in the news this week... a picture from the air of one of the last untouched stone age tribes in the Amazon... the warrior pulling back on his bow to defend from the strange "UFO" he was seeing...

I secretly wish I could trade my heavy technological existence to go live with them.. as I know I am doing my tiny nano part of enslaving mankind...

As many here have pointed out there are religious and moral dilemmas with how far we can defy death, rehabilitate, and recreate ourselves with biotechnology. Naturally there are questions of whom the technology will serve, and like all developments, the rich will always be a cyber appendage up.

I wonder though- if we do not need our own arms, our legs, our hearts… what is it that we do need to survive and remain “human”? There are all sorts of medical reasons to proceed down this path, but is the ultimate goal one of moving beyond the body into an existence that is not confined to the body? If we can all plug in and our thoughts create and sustain our existence, I can only wonder if we might become more advanced and/or less reliant on the physical realm.

I think it is just weird to have monkeys, and robots in the same sentence. It sounds like a weird twilight zone movie thing going on. I guess it is good to have progress when it will be needed in the near future, but for the most part I like the fact of hard labor. It's an accomplishing feeling that no one else can give you, but yourself.

As far as using things with your mind, yeah the thought is amazing, and would be nice, but wouldn't you think that there could be some sort of misuse to it, and people going overboard with it?

I think this is a great leap forward as far as the technological side goes. However, it could be seen as an equal sized leap back in the moral sense. I'm not saying this is how I feel morally, but I wouldn't be surprised one bit if others are opposed to the idea. Religion springs to mind immediately. Others simply wont want to embrace the change because they are comfortable in the "old ways."

I think its the type of thing that will need to out to the public for quite awhile so people can get a better understanding of it. I am fairly certain that there will be some fiery debates coming from both camps. I suppose we will just have to wait until the dust settles to make an appropriate action on the issue.

The only problem I can really see with things like this is that many people have undiagnosed neuralogical disorders. People who go unchecked, could very well be overloading their neural systems causing anything from a seizure to a stroke.

There is always a chance of faulty, or damaged hardware so the chance of immediate brain damage, scalp burns and electrocution can all happen at any time no matter how safe the equipment is. Technology is created by man, and man is of an error'd way.

I would not test this on any animal or person. People may possibly benefit greatly from this, but in a world of anything at the lowest bidder I would never trust it.

The progress for those with severed nerves will be astounding. I am totally in favour of this research.

this is pushing technology a step to far.

Somehow the brains hould not be touch or alter (unless for medical purpuse) it is somehow a violationof the person, his / her soul integrity unique existence.

I personally think that it's just not right to mix life with cold machinery. But I can not deny that I do find it interesting. So I guess I am conflicted with how I feel about this topic. I would never let anyone put anything machine like in my body.

We were talking about this a few days ago, Joking that its the first step to true cyborgs from the movies

CryingMist -

But what about if through future technology, say, it could help figure out crimes and whatnot? Or anything else beneficial to the human society.

Science has better ways of seeing how humans will react to certain things. Animal testing should be completely banned. Not only is it cruel and inhumane, humans react differently to things and our bodies are different.

I am of mixed reactions on this.
In a way it sounds cool to know that they have developed technologies that far.
Think about the capabilities and adaptations that can come of this.
In the same light it is kind of freaky that they have come this far. Depending on how this information and technologies is utilized, the results could be either good or bad.

There are so many applications that this could be used for. Think about how this could affect the lives of individuals who have physical impairments. How much more could they get out of life with this? It does make you stop and think though, are we as a species progressing to quickly for our own good? What will come next?

Defiantly something to watch either way though.

had me there reading the title lol


It scares me to think about a world that humans dont need to fight or work think of how many people would be with jobs if we can make robots to do it for us ....

I would also wonder if like in the movie " I Robot " would robots build robots ? and e do need to keep our hands in control so we dont have a terminator life style

I'm of mixed feelings on this, as I think others are. I can see how someone who is physically impaired could benefit from this. One eithical problem would be schools and tests. Learning in general really, how can we appreciate knowledge when it comes so easily? Also, the internet is full of false information, if a child or teenager was looking, how could we moniter their content? Can we put parental controls on a mind?

MBK that is a hard one....I highlty doubt it could prevent crime, but and I mean here a big fat huge but lets pretend it would then...with proof of acuracy and years of testing...I might consider it an option.
Still that is a big huge but in my head.

Okay say we get this technology then what will happen once we get it the strength of most of the human race fail when money is involved.

So how could we be sure that there would be enough measures made to keep the tech from getting into the wrong hands??

my man brought to my attention a valid point if we had bionics like the six million dollar man and such where they are attached wouldnot with stand the tentions of like lifting a car your chest wall would rip open ...from the shear weight the arms them selfs could do the job thats differant but the part of the body its attached to could not take that strain there fore as i said in my last post in here like plastic surgery baby everyone will want biggger better faster and more more more

How long after this technology is put to use, will the world be populated by 'robocops'? Or, hybrid kits available on the internet to alter the original design of this technology for purposes other than what it was intended for? The chip in the brain...? I can't begin to imagine the negative potentials of that idea.
Although I see potential for this technology in cybernetics (keeping to the design of robots), I don't think it has a place connected to the human body. The amount of money and resources used to develop this technology, I believe would be better used to come up with cures for M.S. , cancer, A.I.D.S. etc. These problems, in my opinion, are more important than a lost limb or a computer chip in your brain to control a computer. People are becoming more and more lazy all the time. Put a chip in your brain and be able to connect to a pc, would you really have the need to get off your a$$?

I feel this is inevitable, I watched a documentary, a good few years ago now, regarding who I think to be the same man Xzavier mentions. In the documentary they were still in the development stages of a robotic arm being controlled via brain impulses. I believe it was funded through a University in England…if memory serves, and today I read about a man who has managed to create and control a character in half life using only his brain waves.

This does not surprise me, what will surprise me is how society handles such a power.

Neuro Warfare &Tech Warfare. We do not live in a utopian society, not yet, so it may be sold under the guise of science or education but the very essence of it…will be control. This has been well under way for the last few decades, for both positive and negative uses. The negative reasons alone makes one feel dubious, if society is not ready…well I don’t need to spell it out!

I do not fail to see the positive effects these developments have, which are many…for health, security evolution of our species. Nor do I disagree with them, my concern lies in mass usage of a technology/thought concept people are incapable of handling.

I was just wondering as I was reading this forum, how it pertained to the Dark Network this to me this thread doesn't belong here but thats my opinon I didn't see anything dark about it nothing about vamps, the rave it self, the supernatuaral and so on...

wish I had the power to close threads... darn!

Sahahria edit: it's a good thing that you do not because the Dark Network also contains the Sci-Fi section. This thread is specifically about scientific advance and how it may change effect us. Since the science is not fully developed it is "fiction". Secondly a Dominar that is very familiar with VR rules started this thread. Next time message a Dominar if you feel a rule is being broken, do not spam the forums.

The defense department will assure the advancement of such technology
they will lack no funds for research, the military applications are clearly worth their interest.

*looks at handle*

*looks at topic title*

*back at handle*

*back at topic title*

*then, pointed look at STAB*

*heh*


Anyway!


Ethics are the excuses of the unimaginative. For those who cry that 'advancement at any cost' is wrong...you have to look at what partains to cost.

Cost....is PURELY subjective.

Animals are animals. Period. If a monkey must suffer so that I can advance...well...welcome to Darwinism, kids. The strong survive, the weak are used for robotics experiments.

Now, I am sure my heartlessness is going to offend, but..er...don't care? I mean, the very fact that you can see me AS heartless points out just how high above the animal kingdom you are. The fact that you cannot see PAST it shows that you still have a long way to go.

Besides, by bringing the experiments into the light of science, where they can be seen and regulated by bodies far kinder than I...means they are done in high class, well funded labs, as opposed to some backally butchery run out of some guys cave in the desert, thus increasing the speed of progress (meaning less experimentation on yer monkeys) and cleaner, safer progress (meaning the monkeys are actually looked after).

In short....deal. Progress is progress. You wouldn't whine if a monkey had to die to save your life, so don't bitch about this.

would the same person that wants to save a monkey care about the suffering of a person without hands?

A great Wiki site on this subject:

CLICK HERE

I don't like it. But for people that don't have limbs it's going to be fabulous...

Considering how many Vets are coming back without limbs from King George's war. I think it would be a godsend. Nano technology can give thousands back thier lives.

i think its frightining, someday its going to be planet of the apes, i know it

ust a point give monkeys robotic arms, ok for research but whats it goin to prove although monkeys are distantly related to us, their brains could be suficently smaller than ours. therefore creating complications for humans if they ever decide to use them.

i think its poppy cock....why cant people just stop interfering...and concentrate on things that are actually important.

This is absolutely fascinating! I have to say I am truly torn on this subject.

On one hand - it would be amazing to be able to think and write or surf the net through one's mind, but could this open a way for other's to control one's mind?

There are so many different ways this technology could be used for the good of man - unfortunately man is not generally good.

CryingMist -

Actually, if technology like that existed there could be space-way for more technology that would help in cyber-crime and cyber-terrorism, as well as being able to help out more at crime-scenes and the like.

Cybernetics is both a good and bad developement in my opinion. Let me clarrify my statement. The good aspect is where our technology as a civilization is going. Such as you spoke of, bionic limbs, implants etc.. All these things for the better of medicine. Now the bad thing of it
is that if you read the "BIBLE" it states that this a sign
that the beast will for his own power. So there you have it, just alittle taste of what I feel on the matter.

wolfkiller,

I'm not sure that this is an area which will lead to artificial intelligence, or independent robots.

What I might hazard to suggest, is something along the lines of the Ghost in the Machine Manga/Anime, but rather than singular consciousnesses being created from information, human minds may take on an entirely energetic experience, living inside the machine after shedding physicality completely.

From here, it might lead to a combined geo-techno-mind which shares experience and memories, resulting in the loss of identity, individualism and gender, in a way similar to the end result of the Evangelion Manga/Anime.

Or it could be more akin to the Matrix fiction, where we retain our own selves in a structured and controlled environment.

Going further, might human consciousness be broadcast out into space? Would we be able to maintain the integrity of our pattern as the signal travels outwards? Maybe not, but as beings of light, we would not be subject to the same limitations of time and space as we are now, creating new frames of reference for existence.

meeper,

When we begin to remove physical experience from our lives, perhaps we will move toward finally understand that part of us which thinks, the very essence of identity.

If reincarnation is to be believed, the physical is not necessary for the individual's concept to survive, in which case I would say that it moves us forward in evolutionary terms, bringing us closer to an understanding of 'G*d' even.

Might this be a dangerous thing, I don't know. There are too many caveats to trip over before saying that we are returning to the true form of our selves, but at the same time, knowing the answers to questions on the very nature of existence, must surely take human understanding to an entirely new realm.

The standard issues of living life would no longer be relevant. Resources, such as food and water, possessions and land would cease to become a reason to fight over, but saying that, virtual space, electrical power and more, might become greater reasons to go to war.

And there are always the issues of domination, leadership, control, freedom, pride, fear, hate, desire, love. Would these cease to be?

Stabb666,

I have one question is there a certain field of study you do like robotics????

And even though you answered with some superb answers you still did not answer mine not unless I missed something.

And all so if you are so into this study of the future then I am sure a brilliant man like yourslef could do something to make the techology you hold dear from falling into the wrong hands.

I know you would like that and I understand the matrix idea but that is impossible at this point is it not???

I would say that the development was good and all but I would like a human experiment from volenteers. Using animals is not the best way to figure out things. I know that animals are thought of, to some people, igsignificant. I would like the developement to continue to grow but not with animals.

this would be really awesome, but then people would have to learn better control of their minds.

wolfkiller,

I just study anything which looks interesting, but my background is making computers work.

I can't really answer those questions because I don't see this leading to true 'robots', with artificial intelligence. Maybe the 'cyborgs' with a human mind will turn on and enslave those humans who are not and in theory, physically weaker.

But as with all nature, it finds a way to balance. Maybe those who move back towards 'naturalisation' of the human form, will use metaphysical ideas and self-developed mind over matter to compensate.

While the matrix idea isn't a reality now, I don't see why it couldn't develop out of those virtual communities which exist now, such as IMVU and Second Life.

Instead of controlling an avatar on a screen, the mind would be able to interact directly with the virtual environment.

Stabb666,

Like virtual reality??
(on the matrix theory)

And okay I see now thank you for that explanation pn the subject sire.

i think its great it will help the disabled and the elderly. not to mention mabey in the futer i wont even have to type anymore =D

thirsty -

You could try finding something that responds to your blinking and types for you. ;]

Great subject..I think in doing this,things are progressing as they should.As evolution stands right now,it would seem a likely avenue of progression.Even if man does have a strong hand in it and some would deem it un natural.

Something that comes to mind when thinking about this Stabb is the enviroment and where its going.And if so,if it continues to turn as toxic as it is,how could soem things survive if not at least somewhat biomechanic.
Scary thought that,but kool on one hand too.
And what some might see as inethical,isnt to others.

This is how I feel Technophobia- fear of technology.
This is my main moral delimia- poor people (like me) who are in need of lifesaving medical technology (like me at this very moment) and can't afford it (like me).
But for the rest of u (middle class up) I hope those cyber monkeys work out just fine.

cemetary -

Free clinics could help ... slightly.

Personally I love the advances in technology and find them very fascinating.

But does anyone feel that a similar situation could happen like in the movie "I Robot"....The technolgy that we create to help us becomes "too smart" for our own good and actually evolves into a sencient being of sorts? Or do you feel there is no possibility of that and its just pure hollywood fiction?

I'd also personally like to see how far it advances -- insofar as it would be interesting to explore cyber space with the mind.

The world's first commercially available bionic hand, has recently won a prize.

Although it was forty four years from inception to actually being sold, subsequent prosthetics are certain to have a much shorter development time.

Having been available for a year, this device is the first major step in the path to the truly bio-mechanical being. I am curious now to see how long it would be before a non-amputee buys one.

Have an insuline pump or an "insulin regulator". It has helped me control my sugars better and I'm able to eat anything I want with a touch of a button but I also have the problem of it malfunctioning. One that I worry about is having all the insulin put in me all at once. If that happened I could die from overdose/low blood sugar.

What I mean is that things that are meant for good can have there flaws. The cyber thing would be nice but I would think it you have a flaw here and there? Know what I mean?

Sure with anything going to have its good and bad sides. Like helping peoiple see which is good. Then you watch moives on how they take over peoples body with it.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.