The Ultimate Vampire Resource and Directory

Now this topic can be about anything close to
what I am asking.
I understand others have a different way of
thinking,so it is OK.

The Connection..
Not shure how to start,But...here it goes.

I am curious..
how many of you have a close connection with
a person or otherkin..like threw the mind.?

Such as..
Family,friends..by being turned,or shared experiance?
For thoes who are twins with another,or sharing blood,
family bonds,or changed by blood.Or maybe some thing
happened that was so terrible or Great that left you able
to connect with the other?

I do myself get this connection.
Like to share feeling,emotions,even dream share.
To think one thing,and the other says it before
you do?
Perhaps they get hurt and you feel the pain without
knowing they are hurt.
Anything like that.

I'd very much like to know..if any of you had it where,
you get memories that arent yours,but the others
memory.
maybe seeing events,or faces.
Expecially when asleep,or just resting with eyes closed.

Do you have some connection?
If you tell me or us about it.
Why do you think that is?
And,
do you like it..or loathe it?

----------------
Personally..
I like it.
But,sad to see others scared by it.
the mind can do many things..and I feel as if
there is more we don't fully understand yet.
I always test my connections out,because I am
curious as-to who this all is.

There is no such thing as having a "connection" with another. It is usually one of those "great minds think alike" scenarios.-to be on the same wavelength, a meeting of the minds and so on. Couples exhibit many of such traits... siblings, friends, strangers and why not, the Internet as well. It is all Consciousness... which is, in reality, really overrated.

Some say that to me as well.

I just always had a feeling,that it's a little bit more.
Some thing..science can't explain yet.

I do hope more come here and write..
I'm curious to hear more.

I have a feeling this is a feared or private topic.

I think such connections can be part nature and part nurture. I do think there are parallels between both. One person close to me I have known her most my life, comes to mind. We are always finishing each others sentence and telling each other 'Get out of my head!' Soul Mates come to mind on this debate as well. To me A soul mate can be of the same gender, best friend, mother, father, sister, brother or anyone. I think soul mates just reveal another layer of you to yourself. That could at times not always be positive thing for a relationship. I think any close relationship should be a journey. According to research, couples who are too similar to each other, both ... in personality, are less likely to have a long lasting relationship. I do believe in a sixth-sense connection.



**Scientists have found evidence that people in harmonious couples really start thinking in sync. These data were derived from observations of brain activity in patients and psychologists during therapy sessions.**

http://www.learning-mind.com/possible-to-read-each-others-minds-say-scientists/

I understand what you mean i said what to my mom one time and she never said my name,i said you called me she said no but i was thinking of asking what you wanted for dinner,so it happens plus im an empath so i feel emotions from ppl and sometimes pain.

In any form of communication, a connection with the other happens, even for the faintest moment. My shadows waiting.

I do believe that we are all connected through the various levels of our consciousness. While science has yet to disprove experience such as dream sharing or astral traveling, the fact that two (sometimes more) people can share these experience is enough for them to feel - and believe - that the connection exists.

Sometimes I have dreams that I feel are from past life experiences. For example: In one recurring dream I have, I am a peasant girl - about 14 years old and living in the village near a castle. I don't know why but it reminds me of Slovakia (I do have Slovak in my blood). Anyway, there is a young prince who always comes to visit me - he sneaks off from his family to bring me food and sometimes money to give to my family. He would be seen as a traitor if his father, the king, ever found out. We also end up developing a secret romance.

Again, I'm not sure if this is a past life scenario, or if I'm somehow connected to someone else's memory. But it seems too detailed to not be real on some level of existence.

some people believe this a little to much i forget what you call it there is a name for it . but they go as far as to say they can feel what others around them feel just becasue they are in tune with them they become so close to that person . i am not sure if i believe it but have herd of it in friends that do believe they can feel and tast and even hear what others do even more then the other person knows . like they can some how tap the sub . i have an open mind to this but dont know if much is written about it so i can not say if real or not .

I've had this sort of connection with people I've just met as well as people I've known forever. I don't know how to explain it. It's...fascinating.

I thought maybe it was based in attraction. Now I'm not sure.

oh no this person i knew who has it says they feel the bad the good and all pain and all peoples not just ones she likes . and she thinks it of more a curse then a power . for she can feel people well after they are gone or at least the feelings they had when they were still alive.

I would say the "connection' or not, can be consider a real thing or not depending on probably your faith, belief and how you were raised or even maybe personal experience, I am sure some do believe it is real, others will think its coincidence or accidental.

I think it can be possible, but I would not believe that from everyone, I think some might be able to connect, they feel in their guts when someone happened or is about to happen to someone which is not there but they have a "link' with.

I do believe in a connection from someone or something depends on how you look upon it, careful which you connect too!

nope if this connection thing is true like the person i know says it is . she feels strong about it and picks up on people even if she does not know them . she has to be very close to her subconchis not spelling that right but you all know what i mean. i believe that your subconchis is something not to play with it is there for you not to know about . its a very good thing that we do not always know what its thinking or doing . some times it helps us out and other times just hides things from us that are so bad we are better off not knowing a thing about it. for example if you knew you had the powers to read someones mind . that power also would have many side affects . you could and would almost connect with that persons feelings and no how they feel almost before they know how they feel themself. and that could be very bad. but if you had thos powers and your sub would only let you see pics or view things they way you view them and not the way the other person views them . then your sub is working for you . and the connection would be so different.

I have a connection like that with my sis its more than great minds think a like how many considences do you need before its not one lol i will be worried so i call her and sure enough something has happend or we call each other at the exact same time wich is annoying or we say i love you at the same time.

I believe we can be connected to others in many ways theres alot of things to be considered here. As far as mind melding i do belive in it to some degree as i belive twins and close friends and family members have ways of communications without the use of words for example body language. And aura around others some folks are more sensitive to whats going on and can read others its rather common so i hear. Just as the spirit of animals can speak to our inner souls and protect us so too can people and family. As also can the great spirit,of the skys,

We are all connected in some way I believe but I could be wrong

Connections are rare for me but I see most peoples connections as something created out of need and not true connections

i have a very strong connection with a friend on VR.
our messages often times mirror each others'

When two people share this "connection" sometimes words cease to be important. It's the feeling you share. You connect on a deeper level. It's very special and rare, and should be cherished.

The connection to others is found to be very simple really when you care for a person you begin to love them to some degree this creates a bond so to speak with a person or animal they do bonding as well . it's my belief that yes such a connection through the mind exists. For example dreams you dream of a friend getting in a car wreck, you then call the friend to tell them about it to warn them of a future events. For me this actually saved my best friends life in my dream i screamed in my mind and woke up to a phone call whe she asked me about how i was doing i told her my dream. She kinda blew it off untill later that day. She was driving and a drunk driver ran the stop sign at tge location i told her she stopped ,avoiding what would have killed her. So i say yes you can comunicate by mind.

talking about it, I got a story to tell, its a true one, and weird one a friend of mine was working and without even realizing it when he got near another working a technician he was barely talking and the tech too and they knew what the other was thinking before even saying it, and they realized it and were both like "wth" and amazed, especially since they are not even friends or anything it just "happened" and that it.

So it puzzled me and made me rethink my point of view on it, especially since I know that person and he tells the truth.

i see it rarely in my day to day, however there's this one person that almost everytime I give them a thought, they feel the urge to contact

weird huh?

I get feelings about a person upon meeting them
I always know who I'm going to become very close to from the very beginning.

It thinks in me that telepathy is completely real. I more I study raising consciousness it reiterates "we are all one"-Planetary Hierarchy- etc.

i think one way or another we are all connected in one way with each other . we just do not always know how or why .
we all come from the same place earth . no matter what you think you say other wise its all a blur in your mind . i believe we are all created and not just made like one another but made for one another not to live out our lives for our self but for others . if we were made for our self would we not live foreever . and then death would not have anything but it still does because we give power to death it has none over us . so death is something we all are connected to .

Hi :-) Forgive me of my ignorance. Science has proven less than 1% of what reality is. Pythagorean Hylozoics(logic) makes the most sense of a working hypothesis, in my humble opinion. We are all one for eternity :-)! Blessings to all, Lutris8

one thing am not sure of if we are connected more by soul or by mind .

I love metaphysics :-)! We are all one :-) I my ignorant humble opinion, the more we focus on our similarities instead of differences, the easier it is to love everybody. What little science has defined about how much more of our minds can be developed and used, speaks to the metaphysical abilities we all have. Consciousness development is the key to becoming our defined make-up human. Human: Hu, from hue, light, man. We are light beings, having all the amazing properties of light-Waveform and particle. Totally metaphysical! Blessings to everybody :-)

Many species of insect have been proven to have a hive mind mentality.It could be possible that humans also have that,just that we aren't as aware of it..

The Greater "Truth" of Dualism.


All around us, in science and the as-of-yet unexplained.

Yes, empathy and entrainment.

I believe some of us become closer than others. I believe that we can become close enough to have a " connection" for lack of a better word. Sometimes we just seem to know something. I am not sure how to explain this but I have experienced it before.

I didn't know my thread was still up here.

Thankyou for all your replies.

I thought for shure this would go dead.

I see,
80% of you do have a connection in some for
or another.
I'm glad I am not alone.

It's strange though..the one connection that
seems like that shouldnt be. That-is..a connection
with a stranger.
Anyone have this as well?

not like friends..or anything but complete strangers.
Beings or people you don't know and never met before.
And I always get kinda paranoid deep inside.
Like..
Why is there a connection,or should i tell this
person?And what is the main reason for it.

Maybe it's just me.
But,
i must admit ..it startles me a bit.

I don't see the issue here, or why people would be so shocked to find someone on this planet that they have connections with. Strangers or not.

There's what, like 7 BILLION people on this planet???

We don't find it strange when animals act in the same manner as each other.

I've heard it many times before, the dream that many people have, where they show up to school in their birthday suit. Many people have dreams such as this.

It's not so strange.

I believe over 10bil..now.

Most people either must keep it a secret and don't
talk about it,or maybe they really don't have
mind-to-mind connections.

No one around me,or in my family does over here.
I tried to bring up the topic..and no one seems to
know what i am talking about.

most on the net,would ignore my messages,
or like this...a thread about it.
So,i just imagined that MOST did not have what I
been threw.

I never knew something so powerful could exist until my 5 year old son was born. From the moment he was born I could tell something was not the same with him. The first time it happened, he was about six months old and I came home from work. My husband was frustrated because Zach had been crying all day. I looked right at him and for some way some how that he wanted cheese. It went on like this between me and him still does. Mostly over wants when he is frustrated or over his feelings because he has trouble expressing them. For me it has been a life saver because he is non-verbal Autistic and at least I have one way he can communicate with me.

Connections exist. It works especially well between athletes making plays

to me to realy connect with someone you have to get to know them first but not with questions or asking there age or doing anything or having anything of theirs . i think all it takes is to use at least 40% of your brain but not many can do this its not like we can not do it its more like we are who we are becasue we let others say we are not something and that sticks into us and we agree with it. some times it just helps to try new things and try and do things different every day just little by little . you can awaken your brain and maybe at least hit 25% in as little time as 10 years . you have heard of nothing was done just once this is amost 99% truth for we have been on earth for so long now that we are looking more and more outside the box and trying so hard to be so defferent then others . as one time maybe before written word and we all lived on one peace of dry land we all had same thoughts and had a very big connection but some out side force said no way it can not be for if they are alowed to do this thing they will be unstopable . so the earth's dry land was broken into many parts as we have now and its still brakeing but not as fast . and we also have wars this is to keep us from having thos connections . we can not agree on even the simplist of things so we lose a lot of connection and be come more and more self aware . for even the wise men of our days say death to self means we do not agree with the way things are going but if you keep thinking of only your self you will lose yourself and lose all thoughts of others .

"Many species of insect have been proven to have a hive mind mentality.It could be possible that humans also have that,just that we aren't as aware of it.." -Sangreas

Perhaps human beings are still within the infancy stages for this particular area of evolution.

It seems like more and more people feel some sort of "awakening".

And as they should. Technology has made it so that information is very accessible. 40 years ago, if you had a thought about this subject matter and no one wrote a book about it yet, you were screwed. Stuck with your thoughts, ideas, and theories in your room. Forced to go out into the world and find answers. Now, search engines and cell phones make it so that you can go looking for answers from almost anywhere. And we can share raw and unfiltered information with each other. With complete strangers from around the world.

It is harder to keep secrets from the public. Everyone is a walking video camera now. We sign off on disclaimers effectively giving the machine permission to know all of your business. Who is in your family, where you are located, where you work, who you work with, where you were educated, who you where educated with, what you like, what mood you are in, current status. I'd hope that someday, this information can be used for more than just targeted advertising dollars or investigation.

Perhaps the next leap in "connection" won't be evolution via genetic mutation, but rather a revolution by way of technological innovation. Maybe a bit of both at the same dam time.

The NeoHuman will not be televised ;)

well i hope that some day we all can make a great connection and see eye to eye again just as good at least as we did before world war 1 . people when we do not have our minds on war .when we are at peace we can have some real great connections . and learn much faster and do more things and get more done. but some say war gets things done the fastest . well for some it may but for the greater of all man kind we do not need war . we do not need to many people telling us how to run our life . but we blindly let others make chooices for us. the laws we make today change not only who we are today but who we will become . and for the sake of us all some laws need not be ever written and others need to be enforced a lot more . this also will make the best state of minds so that we all can make more advancements and get more out of life .

The problem with war in general is that many people get killed just so that one set of power and control is merely replaced with a new one. I do not agree that this has any potential positive effect on the types of connections we are discussing.

A natural extinction level event like a meteor strike, global earthquakes, alien invasion, etc. could provide a reason for nations and individuals to forget about petty differences and band resources together for the greater good. Such an event might bring about technological advancements via necessity for survival. One may argue that nuclear winter may have the same effect, but I argue that outcome would leave very little left to communicate with or build upon. Certainly limiting our potential to connect at high levels while dramatically decreasing the world population as well.

Thanks Cinnamon! Appreciate the kind words and always happy to help.

Need help getting rid of a stale old connection? :::whispers::: REIKI ;)

It has been said that extinction level events of the past accelerated the genetic mutations in evolution in the name of adaptation and survival.
I won't deny the very likely possibility that anything close to an apocalyptic flavored event could bring about a TWD kind of scenario where only those in groups with guns survive for the most part. But I do hope for a more positive out look. I think what it would really come down to is if we still have electricity or not. No juice, no machines to assist. Our ability to communicate and share information is essential for a proposed technological evolution.

the only way to get more IT or TEC out is to put an end to the slowing down of how much gets tried or put out . and for free . so many things just do not get made because of the cost of it . I do believe if we are to connect better we do away with costs and find a way like the old greek did .

Absolutely! The top 1% who absorbs 80% of the revenue does not want to hear anything about FREE.

In order to truly take advantage of our full potential to combine knowledge and resources the existing model of "he who has the gold makes the rules" must be removed. War does not do this. And those with the coin and power are not exactly trying to give it up willingly either.

The science currently exists and the technology could be developed.
The problem is money.

"Fight Club was the beginning, now it's moved out of the basement, it's called Project Mayhem." - Tyler Durden

Cinnamon, I was with a girl for 5 years. Rarely did we say the same thing at the same time. Once in awhile we would but it was rare. When we did we both say 'get out of my head' and laugh how we were surly soul mates. I was with Maria almost daily, we spent a lot of time together. We were engaged. Alright, that ended. I began to see Lily. One day we were talking and hit it off and few days later we were 'together' as a couple. Right away we began to finish each other sentences. Right off we almost daily would say the same thing at the exact same time, perhaps not in the same words but the same meaning. however, often we say the same words, word for word. Now we do it a few times a day. It's really kind of spooky the connection Lily and I have. It's almost I think she is a female me. We think a like, like the same foods, the same art, music... list goes on and on. As you say too about your friend, Lily and I will contact each other at the same time, wake up the same time.... even sometimes in the middle of the night. I might have a nightmare and go to Skype her and this has really happen to us, she will have just woke up to reach out to me knowing something was wrong. I do not know how to explain it, except, I feel like she is me in female forum if that makes sense. My other half? My soul mate? I know it blows us away sometimes when it happens. It happens almost daily. I liked how you put your friend is like the other half of you. I like to think Lily is the other half of me. Its' amazing.

Some say that soulmates doesnt excist. That deep connection like the ones we see in movies and we read on books doesnt always exsist. Well I post here because I want to say that they are real. What Dakotah said earlier is true. When I first He and I started to talk it was friendly. We were having fun about topics. Talking and learning about each other. About our likes and dislikes. Someone might think that its funny how fast we fall for each other. But all that can say is that ut was meant to be. No matter what when you trully have found the other half the universe will help you in a way or another to be with him / her.
It doesnt matter that we are miles away.. It doesnt matter that we have hours difference. Everything can be solved. What matters is that we found eah other.
For example Twice he was rushed to the hospital and both times I felt it. Like a huge knott in my chest. I couldnt breath. Later I founs out why I felt like that.

Another time I was spring up from the bed and rushed to the pc or my phone where I have to Skype only to find him away in a worried shocked state having bad nightmares. And let me tell you that happened to me too. I woke up from a bad nightmare only to see him texting me asking if I was ok before I told him what happened.
As Dakotah said we do think the same and we both say the same. There are so many time that I tell him "Stp reading my mind" or "Get out of my mind" Or "Dont be a copycat". We laugh and feel warm that we are so connected. He is next to me to my bad days and good ones as I am to his. He gave me so much strength to keep moving. He was "holding" me when I was weak too. And I will always be there for him no matter what

I believe that Creator as he say or God pulled us together. To be able to Be together. Till the time will come where I would be able to wrap my arms around him and hide in his arms and be completle with him. To be able to touch and be in his arms.
I am greatful that I was able to find my other half. That this man came to me. I am proud to say that I am in love with my best friend my warrior my other hhalf and my sould mate.

So I will stop my rubling YES I believe in connect. I believe in soulmates. I believe in other halfs.
I have mine in my life.

Lily is my best friend. As I have posted, and she has posted, some how with the Billions on People on this Planet, two souls crossed the same path and discovered each other and amazingly the bond we have be it friends, lovers-- we have an connection that is unexplainable where we are so connected we know each others thoughts, emotions, when one of us fears danger, when we need each other the most we are able some how to know and we have the same thoughts many times a day. I look at this as a gift. You're friend is a gift to you Cinnamon, hold it dear to you. Cherish it. I think sometimes and I fall into this I want to know answers to everything. Sometimes there may not be an answer, an explanation as to why something happens, it just is. Enjoy your wonder gift of such a close friend Cinnamon. I plan to do the same with Lily.

I agree and with a few words I want to say to not only to Cinnamon but everyone. If you have find this person that is so precious to you. That with a smiple hi can cut your legs and pull you at the air atthe same time. That you feel so drown to him/her like the magnet. That you feel complete. Connected. Whole. Dont get scared. The connection of two half's is always that extraordinary. Its like trying to pull two magnets apart but in the end the connection pull them together. Connection doesnt have miles or hours. Is unique and supreme.

I'd be far more sceptical of this if it weren't for my personal experiences. I don't want to go into detail here, pms welcome, but I do believe such connections are POSSIBLE, do happen, and will one day be explained by science (just not today, or tomorrow.)

Glad this picked back up.

I like reading about,what you all have been
threw and felt and noticed.

I mean,we all understand connection..
threw phones and computers and..to have
a NEED to keep connections.

But,
I am more interested in a mental connection..
threw the spirit and mind,maybe threw energies.
Kind of a 6th sense ..type of feel and knowing.

I'm glad all of you got to share this,
and understand with much love and respect.

I always feel how Dakotah feels and He always feel what I feel.
Even our mind are connected most of the time. He read my mind before I be able to press enter on what I wrote. And vise versa. That is like six sense too. To be able to feel the other if he is in pain or happiness or in anger and frustrations. Its like there is a bright white cord that connect my body to the other way of the ocean to his.
I know it sounds weird. Some might even thing that is insane or scary but to us is something precious. We cherish it and love it.
Connect to mind body soul and heart.

And Cinnamon I still wonder how you manage to do that link with the forum hehe. You are a magician

Liliancat that was so nice to read, thank you for sharing :)

Not weird at all but very sweet

I think he will read it and wont find embarrassing at all but sweet nad magical. Its amazing how two people can connect. Like the cord I told you that connect two people and now matter what they can always find each other. Like you found Dj and like I found Dakotah and vise versa.
Thank you for sharing this story Cinnamon.

Its funny though because they link had the Zeus myth that i have forgot about as i had read it years ago

VannaChaotica is a subject worth talking about. When it happens the connection is unique magical and amazing

I believe in the term empath...

Empaths can channel what other people are feeling....as stange as this may seem, some of you here on VR know how much of an empath and channeler I can be. It's crazy, and I may have never met you personally, but as I read profiles on here and see pictures posted of those that have pictures in their portfolio, I can sometimes tap into what I call brain cloud or mind wavelength and be able to read things that I would not normal know. You can ask me a question about something (which I have done in the past in coven forums of "ask Veresta") and give you an honest answer back.

We all have wavelengths we emit together with that and ley lines sometimes we can connect with someone entirely that we don't know. Sometimes this could also be a common shared trait or by a shared past life (if you believe in that).

I've read this thread in its entirety and for those who think "Connections" don't exist and it is all in the head... I call BULLSH*T.

Science has already proven that there is a special "Kirlian Effect" in experiments that actually show the light emissions from people in an "Electromagnetic Field".

Science is still experimenting with this method to see if the Spiritual Body is connected to the Physical and when the Spiritual is healed, so will the Physical. Basically a balancing of the aura via the "kirlian Effect" and Psychic Healing such as Reiki.

Everyone has this aura around them, their Spiritual Body enveloping their Physical Being. This is where The Connection manifests physically. This has been proven time and time again with EMF meters and recorders. Two aura's within close proximity, touch and so one clairvoyant may be able to read the person next to them.

This also involves Romantic Relationships and Best Friend scenario's. This audience can't look me in the eye and tell me that an actual Connection doesn't exist. Whether your afraid to admit it, or it might not be part of your belief system. Irregardless, one cannot deny the plain facts that you've all felt a connection with someone in one way, shape or form.

There is a reason why the term "Soul Mate" exists. There is a reason why Spiritualism exists. There is a reason why many throughout the entire world go to Church or "worship deity" in their own way(s).

Hell, even other organisms have connections with each other, dogs and cats, lions and sheep being best of friends, any animal and it's child/children. Love is a very deep connection, and with the added Spiritual factor that some may just claim is a mental institution, a person can very much be spiritually vested in another.

I've missed so much here in this conversation! I too have read them all & I want to address it all individually but time has been so short as of late. So I will try to bring this home a bit instead.

First, let's go ahead and just ignore the non-believers for a moment. What I have noticed, is that here on VR, I have seen more people talk about having these types of experiences than I have on any other platform or in any other setting. I find great irony and little coincidence in the fact that Dakotah and Lil have had such experiences as I have spoken to the following point in another one of his created threads here on these VR forums.

If you have these ability to identify these connections, and acknowledge them, you are special. I do not mean to say, that we are born different or with different wireless hardware than others. I don't know much about psychic phenomenon or study. What I do know, is that my journey thus far has shown me that our ability to connect at such 'unbelievable' levels are very real. Be confident in exploring yourself and your connection with others. Be confident in sharing here, while taking comfort with knowing you are not alone.

Put it this way, I flew to her in a dream, then got on a plane and flew to her in the real world. I gain nothing by making this up, but gained everything by actually doing it.

Believe in yourself.

i guess i can speek for some disbelievers . its very hard to believe some things because most do not see eye to eye on anything or on anyone thing at any given time . but some of the time all can believe in some thing that is hard to believe in just others will always try and put it down thats called pride in what one believes in and i am ok with it as long as they do not force others to see eye to eye with them . for most of the time i say the collective are wong . and the single person is right . and am not talking about my self for then it would not be a believe at all but self indulgence and self pride .

I have to agree that ultimately you can have a "connection" with someone . We cannot fully explain it or maybe even understand it. However, I have experienced it.

i think that connection is always been made with the help of a outside sorce it does not come from within like so many would like to believe .

Mmmm Dopamine. It's interesting that the data shows the more sex the better. Not that it's a surprise, when the sex dies, the connection soon follows if it wasn't severed first.

There should be no surprise that it's a 3 step process either.

Trinity like even...

"It is interesting reading your reactions. Your five predecessors were, by design, based on a similar predication: a contingent affirmation that was meant to create a profound attachment to the rest of your species, facilitating the function of the One. While the others experienced this in a general way, your experience is far more specific. Vis-à-vis: love." - The Architect

I am a horribly aloof and sometimes very dense individual so I rarely have a connection to people beyond intellectual interest.

There is one person though that I seem to have quite a strong connection with: my spouse. When I am feeling a certain way physically or emotionally it is often the case that my spouse will end up feeling the same way. We also share a telepathic bond to the point where we often get confused as to which thought/idea came from whom.