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I agree, I visit the battleground regularly here in Chalmette and take photos- and see the endless graves of all those who died in the battle of New Orleans, the final fight of the War of 1812. It's a great place for those interested in history to visit. There is a little museum there as well as other neat things to see.

Interesting points; if lines are drawn, with both sides staying on their sides, there is no stalmate...

I was working and going to school back in 1980...guess I'm getting 'old'.

My uncles that fought in Korea would in no way call it a stalemate, they came home victorious and happy to be back. The War of 1812 gave us "Old Hickory" and was still being taught with pride in our young nation's courage, when I was in school many years prior to 1980. It would make those vets turn over in their grave to hear how it's being re-written. It would be interesting to take a history book from 1975 and compare it to what's being taught today just to see how it differs.

if something is taught for years and then revised due to new evidence is that revisionist?....to draw a conclusion about a time and place in history you did not attend is like buying fruit in the grocery store....it's a gamble.

There is no new evidence. The facts surrounding the War of 1812 and the Korean War are the same today as when they were taught to me in 1980. The only differing fact is the number of casualties that resulted from the Korean War. Casualty numbers have continually been revised, on American, Korean, and Chinese sides.



What has changed since 1980 is the increase in anti-Americanism.

Hell yeah there's a lot of that going on. After watching so much on the Wetsboro Baptist Church lately- it's pretty amazing people that feel so strongly about their dissatisfaction with the country even stay. I'm talking about major groups of people that aren't so poor they can't leave. There are a lot of people that believe pride in your country is sinful- idolatry. I know that spills into another discussion, but this is just one example of Anti-Americanism right here in the USA.

Its amazing how time changes 'The Facts'

World history when is was told to me (at the same time you learned it) was the same. We won.



My wonder now is why is people trying to change it now?

Thank you for the history reminder. Love refreshing the brain cells. :)

I have to smile, I guess it would depend on just what criteria you use to call it a victory, come to think of it, what criteria does anyone use to call a war a victory.

You certainly have been caught up in the mental war that was being waged in that era.

I think your teacher made a great impression on you in class that day!

Don't even start me on nationalism. lol

Honestly, I still hold a grudge from when the British attacked from Ontario and burned the city of Buffalo...



...some might say it would have been better of that way... but, I digress.



To say Canadians were anti-union though is an understatement. Even though Canada's Independence is marked at 1867 when the Canadian Confederation was established, they technically remained under some measure of British control until 1931...

I call it a victory when a foreign nation invades your land and you beat them back. They retreat and go home.



This was the case in both wars. If you look at the Korean War graphic I posted, initially, South Korea was virtually overrun. By the time US and British troops arrived the country had, for all intents and purposes, fallen.



At the conclusion of each war, all foreign invaders were gone.

Additionally, in regard to the War of 1812, America did not make a single concession to the British. America won everything it was fighting for.



British troops retreated from US territory.



America traded with France unfettered.



The British stopped kidnapping American citizens and pressing them into service in the Royal Navy.



The British alliances with Native American tribes fell apart.



The defeat of Tecumseh led to the crumbling of the idea of a Native American state in the Ohio valley.



America got every single thing it wanted at the conclusion of this war. There were no concessions. What did the British get? Nothing.



There is no way you can call the War of 1812 a stalemate.

reading the articals that is there (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:War_of_1812)

There is much debate on who won on those pages.

We of course did, but i do find it not so funny that 98 years after the war, we are now 'Debating' who won??? sheeesh.



Seems like every time one turns around there is someone trying to change something to fit there needs. Walks off mumbling.

ooops.... 198 years later....

I generally don't read the 'talk' pages, just the main Wikipedia articles, so I overlooked that.

If by your own definition as to what a victory is then surely this goes down as a win for Canada as the aim of the Americans failed to capure it's target, that being 'Canada'.



Dont get me wrong, it was a very expensive and humiliating outing for the British, especially at sea as 'Britain ruled the waves'! Again this was not won by naval intelligence but by overwhelming numbers.

We were already at war with Napoleon which had stretched our resources in Europe and in the years to follow we never made America accountable for sideing with our eneimies. Oh the regret. lol



1812 was never seen as out and out war. Britain had already lost America 50 years early and were dealing mainly with trade than territory. There was always conflict along the northern borders but it was never war.

To my knowledge, there is no historian of note that has claimed the goal of the US was to take over Canada. The US went to war with Britain for the reasons stated above: sovereign trading rights, impressment of US citizens, and Indian affairs.



The US did briefly march into Canada after the war had begun, but as I previously stated, this was a liberation effort. When the Canadians more or less showed they did not want to be liberated, the US withdrew.



There is no evidence that even if the US had liberated Canada from British rule, that Canada would become part of the United States. Or, that the United States would leave behind an occupying force to hold the territory.



The United States has NEVER, in its history, annexed another nation. We have never been a colonial empire. We've never marched into foreign nations and set up governorships. (This point can be somewhat debated in regard to native American relations, however native Americans never had fixed territories or 'states').



After the original 13 states, new states were added only after a rigorous process. Regions became territories, each governed under self-rule. Statehood and acceptance into the union was only granted after a territory could prove its worth.



This is something that makes the United States very unique among super power nations. It's something the people of today forget. Although we use military force, we do not annex, colonize, or occupy (for the long term). The combat troops have left Iraq. Soon the US presence in Iraq will be similar to that of South Korea or West Germany prior to German re-unification: a small peace-keeping force left behind to aid and assist the local government.

And now the USA and England live happily ever after.



And i hope our alliance lasts till the end of time.