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Let’s talk about evil! I have always herd that money is the root of all evil. Evil been around a long time. Perhaps its even outdated. Alright let define it according to Oxford dictionary Evil is: Profoundly immoral and wicked: ‘his evil deeds’ ‘no man is so evil as to be beyond redemption’: Harmful or tending to harm. I am sure we all have our own definition.

The past years philosophers have become interested in the concept of evil. Their interest has been the layman’s ascriptions of evil in which to understand it due to the horrible events of the past 80 years, the holocaust, and 9/11. Just calling these events ‘ bad’ or ‘wrong’ does not capture the moral significance of them. We need the concept of evil. To further dissect evil we can break it down into two concepts: broad concept and narrow concept. Evil in the broad sense has been divided into two categories: natural evil and moral evil.

There are two concepts of evil: a broad concept and a narrow concept. Broad evil picks out any bad state of affairs, wrongful action, or character flaw. Evil in the broad sense has been divided into two categories: natural evil and moral evil. Natural evils are bad states of affairs. Toothache could be an example of natural evil because it does not result from negligence of morals. Homicide and lying are examples of moral evils. Some are saying we should abandon the concept of evil because it lacks explanatory power and therefore is a useless concept (Russell, L., 2006, “Evil-Revivalism Versus Evil-Skepticism,” Journal of Value Inquiry, 40: 89–105).

Do you think evil is an outdated or empty concept which should be abandoned? Or do you think society should only use the term ‘evil’ in our moral, political and thinking? Do you think evil was conjured to control mankind to society morals? Also may as well ask this too: What do you think is the root of all evil?

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/omnipotence/
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/concept-evil/

I think the idea of evil is a concept created by man, and perpetrated by man. Sadly, as long as there is cruelty, discrimination, intolerance, evil will always exist. The idea of the Devil, Demons, seems to be an excuse for the evils we do, our horcrux if you like.

I don't really think it is about how old "Evil" is, if we're discussing theology and things pertaining to a religious point of view in context. In that context I think it's more about society giving up on the search to find and become "God". Even if Christianity is the exact opposite in that the individual reached out to a living breathing walking person and coming face to face with that person. Thus proving that a "God" presence could be tangible, why can't a "Evil" presence be? Thus the theological perspective that was given to society by the "Church", ie the Ten Commandments, and the Seven Deadly Sins. Breaking these of course, condemns a persons soul for an eternal damnation into the bowels of the lowest debts of hellish torment.

These days selected by the new generation termed as "Neo", the Neo Era or New Age of Enlightenment, consists of Esoteric Foundations and Metaphysical Aspirations. Thus a root based Karma Tree is brought into perspective.

I don't think it was ever about 'Evil" to begin with... that is old dark age mumbo, jumbo unless you really seek council from the "Dark Ones" called the Goetia. I won't tread down that road... but the "Church" did one hell of a job during and after the Great Tribulation known as the Inquisition. Society MUST fear GOD... or so they taught.

The Karma Tree by and in itself might be one thing considered. Depending on a persons intentions alone, could be demonstrated by the way they live their life and what negative or bad things happen to them by what they've done earlier in their lives. I won't explain this common sense aspect further, I think this audience gets my point.

Is "Evil" outdated? Are we on the Cusp of something much greater? I'll leave this audience to your thoughts.

Dark ones eh? heh.

The term "evil" is a human concept for something they fear and don't understand. What evil actually is however, is merely a part of nature.

if evil is defined as deliberately harming another, that pretty much describes the predators of this earth. Humanity must accept it, nature is not one sided, first she giveth, then she taketh away. Predator and prey. You are the prey of nearly all, so stop wetting your pants and accept your position in the food chain, instead of trying to take over the world.

We were there before, we are here now and we will be around until the sun dies, and by we I of course mean just the nature of evil in general.

Money is not the root of all evil, it is the root of all corruption. True evil has no real use or hunger for money. A greedy and corrupt man does.

Corruption and evil are two different things but are annoyingly similar in their apathy, and willingness to do immoral deeds but
corruption is all about the self, such as petty greed. Evil can be selfless and it has a natural purpose in the world, corruption is pretty much man-made.

currency has no place in the world, it boosted greed up to eleven and made the earth as you see it today.

I tend to look at 'evil' as what society created to control the masses. Like I vision a group of guys sitting around a round table high up in some tower as the decide what is going to be evil or not. Thinking your neighbors wife is hot, evil. Though a lot do it just you can't admit it. And they continued to write down what would be evil or not. Then they put this out in society. haha I had more to add to this but seems I caught a cold and my mind just went into a black hole so I will add more later.

Evil. Interesting topic, vecause, my opinion is, evil doesn't exist. Let me explain. Every time someone commit, in accrding with other, an act of e"evil" (between quotation), there are reasons as how and why, this person did what he or she did. So, there is no evil.

I see it like this.

Things are neither good or evil independent of perception. It will lean one way or the other based on your beliefs, or as you state, 'moral evil' can only be determined by ones moral compass.

So for example, if you were raised to believe that money is the root of all evil, then you are likely to see money when it is used to do bad things more than making notice of when it is used with good intentions for positive things. However, I believe, that money is an arbitrary concept, therefore I chose to see it has a means for delivering positive results in this so called state of civilization. Money can influence someone to act negatively, it can also be used to give people water who don't have money. It is truly at the whim of the main character being asked the question.

I think the natural evil however, is a bit more concrete. I believe at the core of everything physical in the universe, there is the prime rule: +/-

Positive VS Negative is a fundamental core to all things physical in my opinion. One can ignore the battle and allow the universe to play things out, acting as a bystander or ignorant observer, or one can pick which side they want to be on.

So to answer the original question, until the universe expands to the point of non-existence or collapses, I don't think evil will be outdated. The universe can be a very violent place to live.

Not far from the truth Dakotah. The bible is one such case where man is deciding what is evil and what's not.

There are two kinds of morality, an internal one and external one. The latter is what society decides, the former is your own personal sense of morality.

@Others
No, evil doesn't really exist yet what it defines does. Cruelty for example clearly exists but terms such as evil or sociopath are labels use by those who can't understand it. Cruelty is a part of nature and thus is not unnatural or a work of a demon.

When one considers morality, one can't just speak for the world, each culture has their own morality. What would be considered evil to one, could be normal to another.

@MordrakusxMortalitas That was exactly my thought on how and why the Bible was written. It is after all said written by men. I see it as stories created to control mankind on what evil is. The ten commandments for example. I also think evil is used to explain things we may not understand. Why does a serial killer kill so many? Society's answer is simply: He was evil. Why does a child kill his parents? They were evil. When something heroic happens like this instead of looking for the true reason behind such actions it is always, they were evil. The concept of evil does not provide a genuine explanation in these cases because to say that an action is evil is just to say either that the action resulted from supernatural forces or that the action is a mystery.

Let me put out here the belief of Nineteenth century German philosopher Friedrich Nietzschebelieves where he argues that the concept of evil is dangerous because it has a negative effect on human potential and vitality by promoting the weak in spirit and suppressing the strong. In On the Genealogy of Morality: A Polemic, Nietzsche argues that the concept of evil arose from the negative emotions of envy, hatred, and resentment (he uses the French term ressentiment to capture an attitude that combines these elements). He contends that the powerless and weak created the concept of evil to take revenge against their oppressors. Nietzsche believes that the concepts of good and evil contribute to an unhealthy view of life which judges relief from suffering as more valuable than creative self-expression and accomplishment. For this reason Nietzsche believes that we should seek to move beyond judgements of good and evil. I agree with some of his argument except I tend to lean more towards that it was more the Powerful who create what evil is through oppression of the masses. Kings that create laws in there kingdom that define what an evil action would be. King Henry who when the Catholic church would not grant his divorce from his 1st wife separated from the church and created his own, The Church of England. (I hope I am making some sense, I caught a cold after I had a flu shot, go figure)

Now isn't that the truth. Evil is just a word made up by the fearful, the ones that disapprove and like to lay down "their" visions. Personally, evil is an overrated concept.

Fear, that is how you control someone. Either by convincing them (so called evil doers) of a fate worse than death after they die or by being oppressing and tyrannical, and both in the case of some religions. Good and Evil is a concept that I find useless since it doesn't really matter.

Evil is never outdated and will always be relevant, an argument could be made that it is just a human concept but what actually defines evil is something that will always be present. Well so long as there are living creatures capable of it.

You see... "The greatest trick the Devil has ever pulled is to make us think (he) does not exist". Whoever the HE is... *rolls eyes* I am just taking the Devil is referring to himself. So yes, as Mordrakus has mentioned, evil, will never be outdated. If one equates big-E, Evil with the Devil, then what is happening in recent times, with the global issues going on, is that, Evil is being disguised. Like a wolf in sheep's clothing. With global politics, I can say that the NWO has been firmly rotted in its origins. It is a self-fulfilling prophecy, propelled by the ignorant masses.

Evil will never be outdated, the ones in power will try to disguise evil in sheep's clothing and delude the masses, making them think that there is so no such thing as Evil.

in short, we are royally screwed.

Their is always a beginning and end, right and wrong, good and bad, positive and negative, up and down, top and bottom, day and night, ect. Its just a reality full of opposites. I have heard one does not exist without the other. Evil is no different, it is just another way to define the opposite of something. Although certain opposites have been given more importance and meaning than other opposites. And some do make all the difference, such as positive and negative particles building up cause lightening. Humans are great conductors of electricity. So in some instances, opposites make all the difference. ;)

That is a very black and white view, I do not believe in all that. Morality is a concept, it may exist to the person but not in the grand sceme of things. Evil is just a word, it may be used categorize typical traits but its still just a label.

If the Devil's greatest trick was fooling people then he didn't do a good job since the concept of a evil demonic entitiy is prevailent in most religious beliefs, which may go back thousands of years.

Evil is based on human perception rather than fact

If you look at it legally, the term to identify "evil" legally is "malice aforethought". Malice in this sense, for example, a murder case, is when it can be proven that the accused has had an intention to carry out the act of murder, either through premeditation or the actual carrying out of the murder. However, this wonderful criteria of "malice aforethought" for murder has been removed in some jurisdictions, making it really confusing and seemingly a matter of semantics.

So, yes, legally it may be malice aforethought, but, if you look at it from a perception point of view, it may not be so. So, the varying definitions of "evil" has been brought to light, making it seem even more baffling to the ordinary person.

I think it is high time someone introduced the term "evil" into recordings, other than being in the dictionary. Evil, in my view, is still very much relevant. It just takes some time and effort for everyone to concur on what actually amounts to "evil".

Evil-

adjective: evil

1.
profoundly immoral and malevolent.

noun: evil

1.
profound immorality, wickedness, and depravity, especially when regarded as a supernatural force.

Evil defined as intentionally harming any other, is prevailant throughout animal kingdoms, it is not special or the work of a demon.
Evil does not exist outside of people's perception/creation of it. Same can apply to morality.
Labels to categorize certain traits.

It is down to personality as well, not all people and animals are the same, different temperaments, different levels of aggression. Not the work of dark forces, simply things that occur in everyday life.

People tend to overanalyze things, want higher meanings, like to label, make simple things complicated. The truth is far simpler.

Relevant only as a term, a biased one at that.

A crook who robs a stored cannot be called evil if he did it out of desperation to feed his family, yet the store owner as well other people and media would label such a man as evil.

Said crook could also have gotten a job. Or taken his family to a homeless shelter for food.

Street beggers can also usually get enough people to 'donate' enough for a meal.

I would've thought a survivalist like yourself would recommend he take his broke ass to the woods and hunt for a meal.

Saying robbery is ok, because someone is hungry, is misguided at best.

I did not say he was not stupid.
Desperation causes stupidity and impulsiveness, and then there is the issue of pride. As you said I am survivalist so I know about desperation and what it can drive you to.
The point that seems to have been missed is that the word "evil" is used with bias as well as being an unfair term that is thrown around a lot without considration of its true meaning. Regardless that the crook had other options, he was not evil.

Another example, cannibalism. Its not an evil act in the least but its deeply frowned upon and practioners are labeled evil beasts and savages. To unveil the fog, this is without murder, a already dead body that gets eaten by someone is not an evil act.

I can agree that stupidity or laziness in their respective independent states does not equate to being "evil" in the demonic sense of the word.


However, I do find the issue of theft and robbery to be:

profoundly immoral and malevolent.

It depends on the reasons though doesn't it?, the world is not black and white.

Breaking laws does not necessarily make that act immoral, laws are just rules, immorality is on the morality scale which like evil is just a concept, but one that is true on a personal sense as people do have their own values regardless of laws.

Malevolent suggests malice and cruelty, which doesn't really befit a burglar as their purpose is to make money, and not necessarily harm or kill someone. Robbery on the other hand does have violence as part of it.

The reason is not an issue. Lazarus is right, actually. Any idea that burglary or robbery might be right on the basis of reason is misguided, at least.

This is like the Peter Pan scenario. Taking from the rich to give to the poor. Sure, there might by some moralistic reasons behind his actions, but, stealing is still stealing. There may be mitigating factors, but burglary, stealing, pickpocketing, are considered to be petty theft. At most, intent is everything. If you have the intent to take from another unlawfully, coupled with the actual act of taking unlawfully, then, yes, it would be deemed "evil" in the eyes of the law.

My apologies. I got the stories mixed up. I mean to say, the "Robin Hood" scenario instead of Peter Pan.

It is interesting that you say that Tristesse because I never said that burglary was right nor did I question its criminal status at all. It is certainly a crime. So no, he is not right in correcting me because I never suggested that burglary was right.
I am just saying it is not necessarily evil, which of course is true as intent is everything, and that gives reasons to actions whether just or not. It doesn't erase the crime but it does determine if the criminal is actually evil or not.

It is very unfair to throw all criminals and criminal activity under the same banner. I say again that the world is not black and white and to attempt to view the world in such a manner is very narrow minded and hazardous. No one can truly understand the actions of another unless they are in their shoes so pre-judgement is a dick move.

Law and evil and not even on the same scale, Laws are just rules that governs society, it is not personal. Evil is just a point of view, a concept that like morality exists on a personal sense as what is evil to one person, may not be to another. The media, religion and politics do like to use the term evil as part of propaganda against their "enemies" but overall, it does not matter in the grand scheme of things. I don't really believe morality matters outside of a person's own values, each individual is different but still matters little in the big wide world.

To unveil the fog, I don't consider evil to be of anything "demonic" as someone above mentioned. I am merely debating its actual use on people and how unfair it is.
The interesting thing here is that people, despite their distaste for Spanish inquisition as well the era of the witch hunts which cost many innocent people their lives, are still casting the first stone and pre-judging. It seems calling someone evil, is the new "she's a witch!"

So I would not say evil is outdated so much as misused as a term of definition.

You can check the time stamp. I didn't say anything about any laws, legislation, constitutions, or manifestos.

I simply said theft and robbery is an evil act.

I never said you did but it seems a lot of words are being put in my mouth in this thread.
Theft is not necessarily an evil act, it requires malicious intent for that. Desperation is not evil, hunger is not evil and survival certainly isn't. Since the theft example seems be too advanced for some, I will use another example and something I am familiar with, cannibalism.

Say seven people are trapped in area that will take two weeks, maybe three weeks tops before they are rescued, there is no food at all. They are all starving, one of them may or may not be dying already. Now in order to survive they will have to eat at least one member of that group, and the one chosen is a logical choice. The person is weak and already dying, his or her life will keep the others alive possibly long enough to get rescued. One life vs six. More than fair.

Now is that an evil act? No and if you ask why it is because there was no malicious intent or desire to be cruel. Just good old fashion survival and cannibalism itself is not an evil act nor is it always against the law, it is the murder that most will get arrested for. Intention is everything, an act itself is not always immoral, especially since morality is both subjective and conditioned by society and culture.

Cannibalism gets a bad rep but it can be essential for surviving and the only thing between life and death. It may be unlikely but one day one of you could be put in a situation where the lives of many will require the price of the few.
It does not erase the act, but as I said an act depends on the intent behind it.

Evil follows intent, it follows the will of those who subscribe to it. Though what one person or culture refers to as evil is dramatically different than another. There are so many forces at play here that it seems like we're having a hard enough pinning down what evil is in the first place, let alone whether it's dated.

At the risk of sounding very black and white in my response, I think evil does exist. Also, I believe that evil is far from outdated. People just keep lending it a hand in changing forms, shifting itself and how it is viewed.

Cultures do make it difficult to pin down "evil" due to the different views on it. Dogs are pets in some countries and anything deadly done to them is considered cruelty and evil, yet in another country they are just dinner and looked upon in the same manner as you probably look at a chicken or a pig. Same with Cows, dinner to some but sacred to others. Laws blur it too as while they are not on the morality scale, they do dictate what is "lawful" and what is not. They too are different depending on country.

I suppose I try not to rely on law as a measuring stick as to what is evil. The two may have some overlap, but certainly they are not the same thing. I'm not even sure taboos or social norms really encompass what evil is. Perhaps the term is attached to all sorts of things that it should not be, which blurs the reality of what evil truly looks like.

Technically I don't acknowledge evil's existence any more than I do morality but I know it at least exists on a personal level, which is what your values are.
Law and culture is just what others tell you, yet in spite of that a person will develop their own ethical code but it still does not matter in the grand scheme of things, hence why it doesn't really exist outside of yourselves. Perhaps the reason why people cling to the term of evil as well as misuse it, is because they need it. Evil means there is good, evil is a way for them to justify themselves, evil exists so people can point the finger. Its a label, nothing more.

That is a fair point. It would be a mistake to create a concept to demonize those that are different from yourself. In some ways, the concepts of good and evil do exactly that. They create an arbitrary us vs. them. Evil may stand as this idea attached to something to make it seem less normal, and push people from it.

People do need evil, in some sense. Something to unite against in order to come together as a group. Though at the same time, this just creates a division.

Though I suppose on that note, I'm not certain I've ever met someone or something that strikes me as pure, undiluted evil.

You haven't met my CM lol

But yes, as you described. Its a tool that is used for comfort and control. A concept that was created because it was needed it and it is used to demonize, which is interesting because you put a D on evil and you got devil. Its all eye of the beholder.

I've met my share of sociopathic personalities, and they are likely as close to evil as I've come. However, given any amount of time spent with them, and an attempt to understand who they are and where they are coming from, I still can't tag them with a "this person is evil incarnate". There are just too many factors that come into play to make them what they are.

As for your CM, no, I've not met them. But I'm sure they aren't pure evil haha.

Maybe part of the problem with the human mind is that we cannot understand a concept properly without having an understanding of what it isn't. To really know what good is, we need an evil. To understand up, we need a down. Everything is relative.

Exactly, you cannot define good without bad and vice versa. Its like how you cannot have light without shadows, which itself cannot exist without light being cast.

Oh trust me, He is a dick, makes Norman bates normal. Make sure if you make a deal with someone, you make sure they are stable first otherwise regret will pop up sooner or later. Probably sooner.

Sociopaths are people who cannot feel empathy or emotions I believe and basically it is their very nature to be as they are so there is no real choice in it, so if there is no choice it makes me wonder why they are condemned a lot and judged as wholly evil. Evil seems to be about intent and perhaps an enjoyment of such evil acts. A sociopath to me is an empty shell rather than a person filled with "evil" as someone would say.

Does an absence of a good trait make someone bad? does an absence of a bad trait make someone good? It is black and white all over again, nothing is as simple as some like it to be.

Haha, I'm not certain most CMs would be too happy with that sort of focus in the forums, but I hear you. Thankfully I keep my head down and am generally too plain for most to notice or bother with.

As someone who is rather empathetic in most situations, the case of the sociopath is one that creates a foil against my own personality. Perhaps why when discussions of evil come up, they are unfortunately my go-to for what evil might look like to me. But as you've said, it's a flawed picture. There is far more going on in these cases. Most notably, social conditions play a large part in sociopathic tendencies.

As I'd said, I've never met true evil. I don't think I've known it. We've both mentioned intent in our messages. So I wouldn't say that an absence of something necessarily makes you the other. You can do nothing and still not be a good person. Doing nothing wrong is not the same as doing what you feel is right. That being said, what you feel is right isn't necessarily going to be right across the board.

As for things being simple...what would be the fun in that?

True but why make something simple, complicated? lol

Well said by the way, you seem to have a grasp on these concepts.

Bias is a major issue for it as well, media can make a petty thief out to be the worst scumbag there is and there are even cases of self defence where the defendant is demonized and vilified while the robber is depicted as a victim. That is another thing, the term evil is used for money and sensationalism. Papers sell more by being biased and less forthcoming of the truth.

Thank you. My minor was in philosophy, I enjoy these conversations haha.

The problem with bias is that we cannot get outside of it. We can mitigate it to some extent, by trying to look at things from multiple angles, for example. However, we're faced with the fishbowl effect. The fish can't leave the bowl to get a better view of it's surrounding. I consider this to be one of the greatest flaws we have as a species. What's worse is that there seems to be an aversion to admitting the bias is there. As though it corrodes truth itself if we admit we may be flawed.

The media is a very common example of this. It would be quite hard to sell papers, if the headlines were "Guy could have just been out for a walk but may also have robbed the gas station at knife point". People want the sensational, they want to not be reminded that truth is just as relative as this 'evil' thing. It gets messy if they might have to admit they were wrong.

Indeed and I too know that bias is inescapable, the best a person can do is admit their views before hand and/or mitigate its effects as you said. Prejudgement is one of the most common things and it is done daily and people don't realize it, as far as they concerned they are right and others are wrong.

A lot of people do know that the media is just propaganda and sensationalism yet it still influences them because it plays on their values and bias, for example you could hear someone going on trial for sex crimes and since no one likes sex offenders, some people will already be getting the noose out and wishing he be punished harshly despite the fact he is on trial and not yet proven guilty.

That, to me, is very much an issue in which people are losing touch with their own first-hand knowledge of things. They are prone to believing that another has done their due diligence in finding out what happened. Becoming reliant on second-hand (or third, or fourth, so on) evidence is insane to me. While I don't think this is anything new, it seems to be taking over.

People are just looking for something to believe in. They want everyone to know they are vehemently against this action they have read about. And quickly, it becomes no longer about the accused, or even the victim. It is just them ensuring that everyone around them knows they think this is wrong. I've always found that odd, they get all worked up, screaming a war cry. But there's not likely to be anyone who stands up and responds with "Oh come now, assault isn't that bad. There's much worse you could do to someone." Perhaps they are just stroking their ego, feeling that they are fighting the good fight (against no one).

Realistically though, I don't think they could care any less who was harmed, or who committed the crime. That would involve actual work, and effort. It's much easier to hate the identity-less straw man. And by next week, one can be sure a new one will take his place.

That is true and the courts are a joke as well, the jury are ordinary people and it is ordinary people that are the worst, again it goes back to bias and prejudgement. No actual work is done, the court 's lawyers go by confirmation bias themselves as they want to win the case. The clients and witnesses are just pawns in the game of careers.

Yeah, I'm not very fond of the legal system myself. I've had little experience with it first-hand, but the little that I have had was enough to work up a healthy mistrust of it's intentions. Good point though, I'd never really put much thought into the jury system. I can absolutely imagine a number of cases in which the "jury of peers" might be easily influenced into seeing evidence where there is none. Unfortunately, we've not re-imagined the court system so that it reduces the potential bias.

There's a reason that all our "after robbery" material at my job specifically states: do not discuss anything pertaining to the robbery with anyone else prior to writing down your account and giving it to police. People just aren't capable of not influencing each other and creating doubt in their own visual records. I'm not certain a bunch of people in a jury room aren't going to convince each other they heard something they didn't.

A dick? aww not sure whether to be complimented or insulted as that is such a meh term to decribe something as great and majestic as me. A deal is a deal, get over it.

Perhaps evil is just a concept but then how do you humans explain something like me? A sociopath is not the answer because as my little wretched friend there explained, they are like an empty phylactery whereas something like me is filled. A human that doesn't know right from wrong is just a pathetic victim of their situation, but someone or something that knows the difference but absolutely enjoys doing the wrong thing...then I say evil can be applied.

You know I actually agree that evil cannot exist without good, balance is everything. The world needs monsters like me and I need humanity to play with though I would not object to humanity's extinction since this world is overpopulated and the playground is kind of getting destroyed. Evil is a good population inhibitor, wars are started out of anger and hatred and it does the world a service.

Evil shall never be outdated, not as long as the world keeps spinning.

So you're the great, undiluted evil.

Curious.

Jury duty is very flawed, some of those people that are chosen at random could be the type that would enjoy the chance to send the innocent down and the guilty free.

Going back to what we said about evil being needed, you can see that in most religions as there is always a devil like figure used as a tool to dissuade people from taking the wrong path. A cautionary tale, source of temptation, target of hatred.

It is curious how all these stories have a fallen character in them as a way to invoke fear.

Evil as a term is obviously going to be used, unfairly I will add. But as a tool of fear, it's almost out of date, not many people care about heaven or hell or the consequences of such behavior. Politics still use it for fearmongering though, painting the ruler of a rival country with the blackest shade they can find.

Shame that so many have taken to applying fear to everything. I would have thought that it used to be much more useful to tell an animal what is legitimately dangerous and what wasn't if everything hadn't been painted with cautionary tape. Though I suppose that is a bit of an aside.

Linking evil with a concept of angels and demons and heaven and hell may have been where the ideas began. However, as you said, people are becoming less inclined to be concerned with notions of heaven and hell. If the idea of evil is lost with that, then what exactly stands to take it's place?

Hence why I use the dictionary definition of the word evil in this thread and reference the dictionary in other threads. In language, using the accepted definition of a word helps avoid miscommunication, misinterpretation, and 'unfairness'.

At any rate, I would hope that Immorality is losing steam. But there is no real basis for measurements on a global scale. Crime stats are always doctored, and plenty of evil acts go unreported.


Robbery is a selfish act of laziness. Immoral. I have 0 respect for it, or any of the excuses related to a motive.
Now what I will say is that I've seen Karma get pretty mean vengeance on those whole like to take things that don't belong to them. I like Karma, she's a pretty mean bitch who sees everything. Consistent. Patient. Brings that much needed balance back to the positive side of the equation.

Meanwhile, I've dealt with some real evil folks and they usually don't like me, because I do not fear their bs and they can smell that lack of fear when I step in the room. 90% of the time, they'll opt to just wait for a weaker victim to come along. In the predator/prey sense, it is wise to lace your porcupine needles with poison, hunters can bite at their own risk, but usually smell the venomous aroma and avoid the trouble instead.

Yet I recognize that just because I do not fear something or someone, does not mean it doesn't exist.

There are truly immoral people in the world, that's real. A singularity may or may not be able to fix that. It won't remove negativity from the universe either, but it could protect humanity from the existing evils you've come to accept. Closest thing to an "evil outdate" upgrade I can imagine anyway.

In Christianity this is referred to as the Holy rapture, which is not to be confused with the 2nd coming.

I've got my money on the nerd rapture though.

adjective
1.
morally wrong or bad; immoral; wicked:
evil deeds; an evil life.
2.
harmful; injurious:
evil laws.
3.
characterized or accompanied by misfortune or suffering; unfortunate; disastrous:
to be fallen on evil days.

e·vil (ē′vəl)
adj. e·vil·er, e·vil·est
1. Morally bad or wrong; wicked: an evil tyrant.
2. Causing ruin, injury, or pain; harmful: the evil effects of a poor diet.
3. Characterized by or indicating future misfortune; ominous: evil omens.
4. Bad or blameworthy by report; infamous: an evil reputation.
5. Characterized by anger or spite; malicious: an evil temper.
n.
1. The quality of being morally bad or wrong; wickedness.
2. That which causes harm, misfortune, or destruction: a leader's power to do both good and evil.
3. An evil force, power, or personification.
4. Something that is a cause or source of suffering, injury, or destruction: the social evils of poverty and injustice.
adv. Archaic
In an evil manner.

Wikipedia
"Definitions of evil vary, as does the analysis of its motives.[2] However, elements that are commonly associated with evil involve unbalanced behavior involving expediency, selfishness, ignorance, or neglect."

and

"The philosophical question of whether morality is absolute, relative, or illusory leads to questions about the nature of evil, with views falling into one of four opposed camps: moral absolutism, amoralism, moral relativism, and moral universalism."

Unfortunately there can still be misunderstandings because its a biased term that is highly inaccurate and even its dictionary definitions are laughable, I mean diet? come on. None of these necessarily apply to burglary because it is mostly a harmless crime in terms of physical harm as burglary is almost stealing without being seen and without taking on a person. The only harm done if any is stress at the loss and potential damages to property.


Robbery selfish? Not always but lazy? yeah, it is very much lazy. I can see dozens of ways to survive without stealing. You are demonstrating a black and white view and it seems you have never known true desperation. In one particular situation, you will starve to death, that will be certainty and this is what I mean by bias, you don't like it so its it really bad. Immorality is on the moral scale and that is something that is personal and/or local, moral relativity. You don't have to respect it as it is crime but unless you are capable of understanding the many motives, you should not be quick to label.

Karma is a belief and I doubt it exists since some have had bad luck on a titanic scale and they did not do anything to deserve it and there has been no good luck to balance it, because balance is what karma is about.

Don't over estimate yourself, to use that analogy some predators simply bide their time. When you feel the safest, that is when you should be worried. Prey that has a natural Predator can't do anything but run from said Predator as the latter is evolved to be better in every way and poison needles would not deter them. I have had the rotten luck of twice learning about or encountering a superior predator. First instance was part of a situation I was stuck in, the second was someone interrupting me at the wrong time and my attempt to take them out and I am very, very strong, it resulted in me being floored which is the first and currently only time it has happened to me, I really didn't think there was anything stronger than me. So while it is good not to fear anything, don't underestimate what is out there and don't overestimate yourself.

Immorality is in the eye of the beholder though isn't it? You got your own values which make up what you perceive as right and wrong but someone else may have their own code. Laws don't count because they differ in some countries. Morality doesn't really exist, like evil it is just something invented by man to justify and condemn behaviors.

I don't accept evil because its existence is irrelevant to me, I will survive at any cost and my action may dip into either moral or immoral at any given time. Using concepts to judge and label actions is unfair because you really cannot expect everyone to be alike.

Stealing can come in many forms, such as copying and pirating. Now if theft is going to be labelled evil and immoral, just how many people on this very site are you calling evil and immoral? Because I kid you not, a lot of people on here probably do, maybe even you. It is really common. This is very interesting because personal views can dictate which theft is ok and which one is bad despite both being crimes. Bias again.
Double standards and hypocrisy is very, very common and especially in those who govern or enforce law. I don't know why people want to find things to justify themselves, their actions or indeed their very existence, but morality is just a tool that has no meaning outside of society.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone..."

Copyright infringement is a great example of an evil being now accepted as a norm. It is certainly an act of laziness.

However, in the list of definitions provided, robbery still equals immoral same as the definition I provided.

Some might tell you they believe Nelson Mandela died in prosion, that doesn't make them right. Copyright infringement is stealing which is a wrong. Robbery is a wrong. I personally do not equate copyright infringement to robbery, though through 6 degrees of synonyms it can be argued they are the same.

Karma- (in Hinduism and Buddhism) the sum of a person's actions in this and previous states of existence, viewed as deciding their fate in future existences.
informal
destiny or fate, following as effect from cause.

Based on the definition, the person may have been a total deuche in a previous life. My experiences of witnessing Karma in action is more of balancing acts as oppsed to balancing whole lifetimes. I do not believe in luck. Mixed feelings on reincarnation.

As far as desperation, I can't say that I know what it is like to be living on the street personally, but I also proactively make choices to avoid such situations. I've had hungry days though, didn't steal a meal to get by either.

And in the predators prevention advice I provided, I left a whole 10% margin of error to capture the scenarios you described. The alpha predator, super thug, or super villain. Yes, there will always be a bigger or more dangerous wolf. The point I was making, is that they smell fear, and that if they don't smell blood in the water, they'll be much less likely to attack. But yes, there is that one out of ten who is up for the challenge and tries to take a bite of your ass anyway. The poison reference was an analogy to be fully prepared to be bitten, and to make sure your prey gets sick after they do. It sounds like you stood up for yourself and in my experience, win loose or draw, if you made them even a little queasy after that first bite, they'll think twice before coming back for seconds.

Back to the subject at hand, people do immoral things. Lying is immoral, fornication, copyright infringement... all men and women sin.

Things like murder, rape, and I'll specify robbery to those of an armed, breaking an entering, or violent nature to being specifically fucked up.

Robbery is most certainly different to burglary as it it does involve attacking someone to take from them. I was talking about relatively harmless theft such as burglary. Both are crimes, intent varies and who gets hurt is one of major differences. Of course it is laziness, want food? go hunting or fishing. Of course that doesn't keep a roof over your head. Trading used to be fair and was allowed, now its only the coin that is accepted.

I would not say I got away or made it difficult as I am now indebted to the son of the whore and not in a money ways, favors and verbal deals can bite you in the ass real bad, especially if you got integrity and always keep your word. A shark really doesn't necessarily need to smell blood in the ocean to attack, you got some that are just by their very nature ultra aggressive.
In some ways I take evil as something that is an unnecessary action. Killing and breaking of laws can be necessary, feeding your hunger can be necessary but cruelty, mind games and torture just for fun and nothing else, that is definitely immoral yet I still cannot accept it in the big picture because cruelty does not really exist outside of what intelligent life perceive it as. Some animals have displayed similar behavor such as Cats and even an Orca whale I have heard. Toying with their prey before killing them, of course that is just the side effect of a long and excessive kill.

That is just it as well, perception. I often wonder if there was no laws, would good and evil, moral and immorality really exist? Would there really be any concept of right and wrong? people do have their own values that develop with or without being influenced by laws and culture. In nature there is a law, usually a hierarchy in an animal social group, so what is right and wrong will be dictated by the Alpha but at least those in disagreement may challenge an Alpha which is something that can't be done so easily today.

I take karma as balance only because I do not believe wholeheartedly in reincarnation, I am open minded and especially after what I have gone through but I like to try use logic first and if all else fails, then whatever is left must be the truth.

Copyright infringement is so common you got to wonder if it was ever an "evil" act, yes it is a crime but is it really immoral? Again one man's moral view may be completely different to another and in the age of the internet, it seems expected to have downloaded and pirated at some point.

I think I shall leave you men to fight it out on the forum battlefield on other issues of this discussion. I have something to say on this one, though.

"Copyright infringement is so common you got to wonder if it was ever an "evil" act, yes it is a crime but is it really immoral? Again one man's moral view may be completely different to another and in the age of the internet, it seems expected to have downloaded and pirated at some point."

Yes, it is. Copyright is under "Intellectual Property". The brain itself is a physical manifestation of our thoughts and ideas. It is the central nervous system that controls and communicates with our entire being. Stealing the ideas of others is wrong. However, there are exceptions to it. Fair dealing, for the purposes of education and so on. There are quite a number of exceptions to the general rule that stealing ideas or the works of others is wrong.

If stealing itself is wrong, because the intent itself is immoral, how can not copyright infringement be an immoral act? It clearly is. It is like an onion. You peel away the layers only to find that the core of it all is the same. Plagiarism is one example for things that have been passed down over many hands. Examinations and academic sectors severely frown upon this, papers have been flunked just because someone ran out of ideas and copied and pasted from another source.

Stealing is stealing is stealing. Not everyone has the ability to think independently. That is why I find the academic sector to be standing all alone in a totally realistically-different environment. It is not always right. But, it is the academics. Just like how you think all laws are do not make sense or are not equal, so are the academics. It is merely a school of thought that articulates what can be observed in nature. Nothing more.

I was referring to pirating such as the illegal download of movies, music and shows when I spoke of copyright violations. It is so common it is barely even acknowledged as wrong by some communities which is why I question its immorality. Those people may be nice and decent, hardly what anyone would call evil yet they may spend most of their time pirating movies.
Plagiarism and stealing of ideas is another matter, I can see how much of a dick move that is and that is laziness even worse than typical burglary.

I totally agree with you from your standpoint, I hope you don't mistake me for picking on you. In all honesty, I am not. I just think it is so much easier for me to get along with like-minded beings on here rather than anywhere else. You have made several great points, though, I must say. Thank you. :)

This documentary was probably the best display of the copyright issues we are discussing:

Ungratefulness should be classed as an evil. I doubt the world would be as accepting of such...pariah inducing acts as I am. Most folks would be thankful of the reprieve they got instead of complaining.

I disagree with the notion that there is always something stronger. An apex predator is given its namesake because its the strongest beast around with no natural predator. I have never encountered anything stronger or better than me, never been beaten....many have tried though. Oh I am sure I will get my dues one day since death is nipping on the heels of every living creature.
There is a film called Legend and the main antagonist says: What is light without dark? What are you without me?
Very poetic and very right.
Call it what you will but nature created evil and it has every right to exist. So humanity can whine, bitch and cry about their dead and raped daughters and sons all they want, it is just a part of life so get over it or commit suicide I say. No matter how many pathetic little laws are passed or how severe the penalties! Evil will always exist....especially in the hearts of humanity.

Copyright? give me a break....who cares about downloads? heh
As mr wendigo obsessed pointed out, it really is over the top common. Maybe 90% of humans here download...uh oh looks like you're all going to hell! heh. That is just this website, I could even say 70-80% for the entire net. So that is a lot of evil folks....

Apex predator, also known as an alpha predator or apical predator, is a predator residing at the top of a food chain upon which no other creatures prey.

Doesn't mention anything about being immortal. The point that I made was that even the strongest alpha has a limited time at it's prime. And when it ages, a younger alpha within that species who is in primetime can take over. No species is immune to time. Time is undefeated.

Heh I was not speaking to or about what you said.. someone else in this thread was being ungrateful....but speaking of nerds, the typical ones don't have much use beyond using a computer, I respect the ones that do manage to survive out in the wilderness since it defies expectations and I like to be surprised now and again. Maybe they will learn reality when they are out there.

Immortality? Ha! of course they are not but that is the test, beating back any challenge whether its the living or the elements. I am the strongest around but even I am aware that one day....a very long time from now, my day will come and it will be violent because time is not my enemy. Nothing lasts forever but what I represent does. Nature will always exist and with it, evil. That is fine by me. I am not obsessed with trying to outrun death and neither do I care about my legacy. If death comes from something as strong as me (which I have yet to see a sign of) then I welcome it, only the strong must dominate and I would only accept something like me to wear my crown.

It is presumptuous to believe technology is the work of the weak, a bit of a stereotype actually but what has use, will be used. There is no shame in that and while some technology is an abomination, others are quite incredible. I have actually stayed in and enjoyed the mountains and wilderness, but the animals up there don't scream and beg like a human does when you hurt it...besides, I still got tasks to do. Perhaps humanity needs to spend more time out in the wild to regain their killer instincts and to learn how weak they have actually become. Society and the law is a crutch that has crippled you all. Only the weak fear consequences, some laws are meant to be broken. One thing that I like about america is that as long as they are in your house and you feel...ahem threatened shall we say (if the police asks) you can legally kill them. Loopholes are fun to play with. Of course, killing unlawfully is an option and a good way to build your legend. Jack The Ripper and the Zodiak. Now they earned their fame.

Soldiers and the police. Two of them are supposed to represent goodness and safety as well as law and order yet a lot of humans join them just as an excuse to kill one another, just brilliant.

Yin yang, you really can't have one without the other....so unless you want to get rid of goodness as well, you are just going to have take the good...heh with the bad. Wouldn't it be funny if the rules were reversed and acts of goodness and charity were illegal? Give to the poor and you get life imprisonment! Kill a random human and get the key to the city!.

I sometimes get the urge to infiltrate a church again and work as a priest, I so enjoy irony and encouraging sin rather than condemning it may actually loosen the world up a bit because other than laws, it is religion that can be a real buzz kill. Thou shalt not kill.....really?

I think I have found the answer. Evil is anything that is contrary to the order of nature. Anything at all that is out of the norm. I know what the questions is now... "What is normal?" However, I assume we all know, from somewhere deep within us, what I am trying to say.

This is very subjective and may pose a lot of problems. I am enlightened.

Incorrect dearie, evil is a creation of nature. Deliberate harm is something all predators do and predatory animals are just as natural as their food. However you are right in that what goes against established normality is considered...wrong. This is why society is an obstacle to nature, it blocks the truth and inhibits your true nature. Humanity these days only get to touch life without truly understanding or embracing it. Evil is a part of life and the potential for it exists in you all. Sometimes you may need just a little push courtesy of yours truly but it is already there. Have a anyone heard the story of the two wolves? One dark wolf and one good wolf. A boy is told the story about how they are constantly battling within you, the boy asks which one wins. The old man replies "The one you feed"

Asking what is normal is a good question because you won't get the same answer. Habits, personal development and the environment all play parts in how one views the world and considers what is and what isn't normal for them.

I didn't say all technology was the work of the weak, nor did I say all nerds were weak. There are plenty of coders and technological developers who aren't physically alpha, putting in work right now.

There is also plenty that are at least in shape for a modern human which is surprising considering that the majority of their days are spent sitting down behind a desk.

Yet a caveman would have the last laugh as they would rag doll any unarmed human today. Yes, a human would 9/10 need a weapon to stand a chance against an unarmed caveman, I will allow a margin for error based on skill at fighting such as martial arts.

Adaption? ha! getting physically weaker and over-reliant on technology that does everything for you is hardly a winning point for evolution. In fact humans should be ashamed of how much they have let themselves go. Adaption and environmental based evolution is not always good.

I don't condemn technology in general, only the ones that harm the natural world. Like I said before, I was initially impressed by humanity.

Religion is one of the worst things to happen to this world, Mankind is the number one on the list obviously. However, I am impressed of the influence it has had on the world.

Wounded animals cry all the time...but its not the same as when a human cries. Sheep is but prey, not a challenge at all and I would not call it a visit, I stayed though later on it was admittedly on and off, as my path took me closer to population centres ripe for the plucking and as I pointed out, animals don't beg for a which bores me.

Exactly... humans are reliant on technology, it has become a crutch., something they cannot live without. Though not everything is plugged in, I myself only spend a fraction of my time on here. I am a little sneaky in that I log in but go afk to do what I need to. It is a waste of electric but I got a coven to run.

What is man compared to an endoskeleton that can hold up a blast door? Curious that while humans want perfection and would love to create such a machine or any creation in fact, that is superior to them in every way. They will likely end up feeling threatened by it, especially if they are self aware.

Knowledge can be an evil...well dangerous anyway, one human uploads methods to kill, another downloads it and mimics it on their fellow man....that information spread just gave someone the means to kill. Humorous as this has happened more times than you can fathom. When america and their allies went to the middle east, they gave the locals some weapons and taught them how to fight....now that is being used against them. Just brilliant.

Nope, Mort isn't outdated! lol

If encino man decided to thaw out and start kicking ass today, I'd think the tax payers and internet viewers would have the last laughs when watching the live feed of the man taking him down.

Good an evil, for me, are poetic terms designed to elicit a specific emotional response. Good and evil don't actually exist accept in the human mind. All it really is is humans relabeling "that which is favorable" as good and "that which is unfavorable" as evil. In which case good and evil are relative and not absolute, as what one feels is good another might feel is evil.

Having said that, sometimes I find myself using the term evil as a term of degree, when something is unfavorable on an extreme level I will often times refer to it as evil.

In my humble opinion, mankind is opportunistic and generally use whatever means possible to get what they want and or achieve their goals. Everyone defines evil in their own way. What I think ISN'T evil might be seen as a cardinal sin by someone else. Evil isn't outdated or obsolete, but a wholly personal interpretation.

I watch something on you tube the other day that explained the concept of prehistoric good and evil. early religion did not understand the concept of day and night. Deities were created to explain that to which the Daytime God, (the sun god) was labeled as good. The night time god was evil. Prime example in egyptian times Horas was the sun god and was good and Set his brother (evil and represented darkness) would fight each day where Set would defeat Horus and night would come and then Horus would come back and defeat Set and it would be day time.

Some people do feel evil is a point of view. Ones ethics and morals have a local foundation. However, I do believe that we all have the Divine spark within us. I believe we have something of a natural moral compass. Yet we have to make a choic

The question becomes who is to say what is profoundly immoral and wicked? That answer would differ depending on who you ask. As for the word evil itself, it is a man-made word just as all words are created by mankind.

For those who subscribe to organized religion, they are told what to believe is "evil" and what is "good". ...But the majority of humans are able to discern between good versus evil, and were able to do so long before organized religion came to be; not that it means that humans necessarily act on this. Furthermore, the concept of evil changes with the times; what was once considered evil may now be considered morally acceptable and vice versa.

I believe the root of all evil is fear and desire, if we are to consider the Oxford definition of evil. These are two of the emotions that drive people the most and have the strongest influence over people. Hence, these emotions can cause people to act in ways that they may otherwise not when influenced by other emotions.

However, evil is a human concept, and if you look at history and the course of evolution, the earliest homo sapiens valued survival above moral conduct. Although it is hard for some to admit, most modern humans are not that far removed from neanderthals in that respect; it is still our natural instinct to want to survive by any means necessary.

Personally, there are things that I believe are right and things that I believe are wrong, but someone else may disagree with me; that however, does not alter my moral code.

The constant acts committed against humanity are a never ending reminder of evil that exists and has existed throughout time. Simply, you are prey or the evil predator that consumes the prey.

No, evil is not outdated. Some would say that evil is a point of view. I personally believe that sometimes evil is evil regardless of upbringing.

What is evil seems to be based in cultural upbringing. Evil does not ever become outdated in my opinion.

As long as we accept the concept of good, then the antithesis of evil will exists as its' opposite force. As Lao Tsu put it, “Give evil nothing to oppose and it will disappear by itself.” ~ Lao Tzu

Wow there are some verbose answers here. I agree with the principles of chaos magick: to a rat the cat is the devil. If you are a vampire, what does that make you to a human?

The root of all evil you ask. To me is mother nature.

My way of looking at it is that the word originally was was a method of control and was quite effective but has lost it's power and is now more of a measurement for how immoral something is. As for natural evil I'm not sure I understand the concept and you're example of a toothache just had me thinking "why not brush". Now the original question about whether or not evil is outdated, no and it never will be. Even if it completely stops working as a method of control this world will never be perfect and it would still be within fiction even if it were. I also agree with what others have said on here regarding there being no evil without good (xsalistax is the only one I remember but I'm sure I saw it more than once) but I did not see as far I can remember the implication being plainly stated, good is the source of all evil for if we had no system of definition for our actions and morality except for legal and illegal then evil as it is now know would cease to exist. That is not to say I believe that is how it should be otherwise this world would turn based on survival of the fittest more so than it does already and that would be a pain for everybody involved don't you think?

Evil is what most societies deem to be unacceptable to the mass population within a given culture and therefore made illegal or unacceptable in thought or deed. As society adapts and changes over time to new ways of thinking and acting towards each other so to does what defines evil and evil acts. For example middle age torture methods would not be acceptable in todays world and could be considered evil in nature, see link for examples.
https://www.oddee.com/item_96596.aspx.

I believe that evil is a man made construct that has been around as long as men have first come to blows one against another. If you want a good read on the nature of evil, Kierkegaard does a wonderful job of explaining it in his writings (I can' remember if it's in the Gay Science or Anti-Christ). Basically what he says is that evil is a point of view. He illustrates his point by giving the example of the vultures and the lambs.

The vultures naturally feed on the lambs, therefore the lambs see the vultures as predatory and evil. However this is merely a point of perspective/view. I think evil will be with us one way or another so long as mankind walks the Earth.

It really boils down to "but muh feelings" really, you have to feel that a line has been crossed for something to be evil, rather than just hurtful or stupid. As we become more and more jaded, evil loses meaning. In that sense, evil's not outdated, humans are just becoming indifferent. Whether that's good or bad, I don't know.