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So curious as to the vast concept even in modern time of this number.

Why it is still skipped in buildings, rooms, etc.
As well as why?

There is a vast kept secret to this number, know what it is?

I'm confused by what you're asking.

Do you mean why do some people 'fear' the number 13 and think it unlucky? Or even insofar as the day 'Friday the 13th'?

I believe so MBK. Asking why is the number skipped in buildings and such, why people fear it, or have issues of using it, and if we know the reason why?

Well dear, i do know that the number 13 was skipped during the making of some textile companies here in the southeast. Why they chose to skip it, i don't know. However, after the former owner of that company, the one's that took it over decided to label it 13, instead of going from building 12 to 14. Some people have issues with it, some are braver souls lol

Friday the 13th may have a role in this and no not the movie. :

A lot has to with the superstitions of the time, few buildings do have a 13th floor but do not name it. it is the laundry rooms and maintenance rooms for taller buildings. Many had perceived that a hotel with thirteen floors would mean total doom for the building at some time...some say it had.

A superstition on the 13th number has been around for the longest time the day, the floor the number.

Yeah and it is funny because if you have no 13th floor and you are on the 14th floor you know you are really on floor 13. And is it true that they sometimes have a 13 just they never use it?

The levels of a multi-story building are numbered sequentially, from "basement", "one" or "ground" upwards. In some countries, the number 13 is considered unlucky and building owners will sometimes purposefully omit a floor so numbered.[1] Hence, the 13th floor is given the number 14. Even landlords who are not themselves superstitious realize that the desirability of suites on a floor 13 might be compromised because of superstitious tenants, or commercial tenants who worry about losing superstitious customers. Based on an internal review of records, Dilip Rangnekar of Otis Elevators estimates that 85% of the buildings with elevators did not have a floor named the 13th floor.[2] Also the Disney ride The Twilight Zone Tower of Terror is known to have 13 floors, even though the dial on the elevator goes to 12. When on the elevator the doors have the numbers 13 on it, showing that the floor should not exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thirteenth_floor

I say thats another human ignorance and supersticion...

The number 13 is just a number to me. When Friday the 13th comes along in the month...it is just another day.

Yes MBK, why if its a superstition do people still believe it is a evil source and divert from using it?
Where did that all start from? And is there any facts to back that superstition up?

Or.. What if I was to break 13 mirrors, on Friday the 13th? would that be a consecutive sentence?

Wow dabbler! You go right ahead and let us all know what happens through the next 7 x 13 years!
Mirror superstition is based on wiccan belief. To break a black mirror is like breaking a portal to the world it was used for in incantation.
The mirror can be used for one spell rite and it alone.

Theres an interesting topic dabbler, about cameras. Like when people took pictures of dead familt members in their caskets. Even my grandmother did that! Weird stuff! Wonder why they did that?

It depends on the culture.

In Sikhism, 13 is a lucky number.

Some would say that the origin of Friday the 13th being bad luck is because the Templar Knights were executed on that date.

Others say a book by Thomas Lawson gave rise to it being unpopular.

Friday the 13th Oct 1307 was famous for being the date the knights Templar were seized , arrested , or slaughterd by king Philippe IV of France .

Also i vaguely remember something about the church making it unlucky because the old pagan religions worshiped the 13 full moons in a year .

Moonbubble got it right. 13 became a naughty number due to grandmaster of the knights templars being arrested on fri the 13th.

no record of it being considered bad luck before that.
~W~

To add to the superstition of the number 13 and it's bad luck:
12 apostles plus their leader, Jesus. We all know what happened to him.

Like someone else said here - when Friday the 13th rolls around, it's no better or worse than any other day.

~Romamarienightwing~: Correction, the mirror supersition is "Pagan" in origin.

Thirteen Being Unlucky:

The fear of the number thirteen (13) is so pervasive that it even has it's own fancy Greek term: triskaidekaphobia. The belief that thirteen brings bad luck is an extremely pervasive belief throughout many societies, and is strong enough that many major hotels and high rises traditionally either build only twelve floors, or, if they want to go higher, skip labeling the 13th floor entirely! Many people refuse to stay on the 13th floor, or in room 13. People stay home from work, for fear of something bad happening. Most airports don't have a thirteenth gate. And in Topeka, Kansas, where the zip code starts with 666- (really, it does! I know because I live there), they skip from 66612 to 66614 – which highly stinks because it would be highly
notorious to be able to boast having 66613 as my zip code.

There are many theories as to why this belief is held. One is that Judas, known as "the Betrayer of Jesus", was the 13th member present at the Last Supper.
Not all ancient cultures held the number in fear. The Chinese and the Egyptians thought of it as lucky.
"To the ancient Egyptians, we are told, life was a quest for spiritual ascension which unfolded in stages — 12 in this life and a 13th beyond, thought to be the eternal afterlife. The number 13 therefore symbolized death — not in terms of dust and decay, but as a glorious and desirable transformation. Though Egyptian civilization perished, the death symbolism they conferred on the number 13 survived, only to be corrupted by later cultures who associated it with a fear of death instead of a reverence for the afterlife." ("Why Friday the Thirteenth is Unlucky", p. 2,
Urban Legends )

In the Code of Hammurabi, an early law code dating from ancient Babylon, the laws are numbered and skip from 12 to 14. It is not clear why the Babylonians
considered 13 to be extremely unlucky. Matt Rhodes
(MRhodes@FARS.IDINC.COM) offers one explanation: "One of my English professors from college (Mythology class) told me that the earliest documented
example of the number thirteen as something bad came from the Song of Ishtar, an ancient Babylonian epic poem. The thirteenth line contains the name of the
Goddess of the Dead (which is never a good thing)."
Unlucky Friday the 13th.

This one is closely related to the previous superstition. Paraskevidekatriaphobia: is the official term for the fear of Friday the Thirteenth. Jesus was said to have
been crucified on Friday and the number of guests at the party of the Last Supper was 13, with the 13th guest being Judas, the traitor. There is also the tradition that roots of this belief stem from when the order came to rout out the Knights Templar on Friday the 13th. Many were rounded up and killed. "...It was a well coordinated raid that took place on Friday the 13th. The action was so swift, brutal and efficient that the day has lived on in infamy ever since," writes Richard Douek (richard_douek@mvbms.com).

"On October 13, 1307, a day so infamous that Friday the 13th would become a synonym for ill fortune, officers of King Philip IV [Philip the Fair] of France
carried out mass arrests in a well-coordinated dawn raid that left several thousand Templars — knights, sergeants, priests, and serving brethren — in chains, charged with heresy, blasphemy, various obscenities, and homosexual practices. None of these charges was ever proven, even in France — and the Order was found innocent elsewhere — but in the seven years following the arrests, hundreds of Templars suffered excruciating tortures intended to force "confessions". More than a hundred died under torture or were executed by
burning at the stake." (Katharine Kurtz, Tales of the Knights Templar, Warner
Books, 1995).

moonbubble is correct about the superstition of the Knight Templar. Used to divert others from finding the secret knowledge the free masons knew.

Are you all aware of the Free Masons building plans surrounding Washington D.C. check it out!

GeorgeBush Jr. and the number 13 at: www.the forbiddenknowledge.com/hardtruth/george-b

also :A secret Number of Sacrad Power at:
www.the vesselof god.com/thirteen.html-

The flight of Apollo is also surrounded by the number 13.
There were thirteen original months in the calendar year, based on thirteen new and full moons that occur.
There were thirten apostles to Christ, not tweleve.
There were thirteen Zodiacs originally, not tweleve.
There are thirteen constellations that can be seen in both the North and South hemispheres.
That the Maya clock wheel has thirteen hours.
That when the remaining twelve zodiacs are placed in Pagan precision there is a significant numerology of precision by the number 3 related to it.
There are thirteen moons of worship under Pagan rites.
The Aztec calendar is based on thirteen, known as "13 Cane"
There is a thirteen Rune called "Eiwas"

Not to go too off base here, but Judas was the 12th, Mary was the 13th. The evangelion book of Mary gives credible details as to this fact. As well as the Hebrew bible...Torah and Koran.

There are also 13 steps to the United States Seals backside. This stands for both the 13 Colonies as well as the 13 tribes of Israel as with Masonic Teachings.

I can vouch for these facts as a Master Mason of the A.F. & A.M. Scottish Rite Blue Lodge.

the number 13 is not a number to fear it is a powerful number not to be used willy nilly. it is used in wicca for specific reasons i dare not say for those who will find and abuse this power. RomaMarie u should know what i talk of.

~VoodooMan~ writes: "the number 13 is not a number to fear it is a powerful number not to be used willy nilly. it is used in wicca for specific reasons i dare not say for those who will find and abuse this power. RomaMarie u should know what i talk of."

I conjecture with: *Sarcastically* Not to kill your "mysterious" ways there ~Voodooman~, but...There really are no "specific reasons" why you "dare not say" for those "abusers of power."

One, the rede is made up of 13 guidelines that wiccans use on a daily basis if this is what they so choose.

two, 13 is used to end one cycle and begin another. To perform Uncrossing, Protection and Purification rituals for 13 days; using 13 items; reciting prayers 13 times.

For the benefit of the Rave, or at least for the Wiccan community herein, you should try to be a little less "mysterious" as not only insults those who know what they are doing, but makes it look like Wicca is a bad thing to be around when it most assuredly is not.

VooDooMan is not referring to it as bad nor insultive. There is a power source conected to this number, it is what and why it has so longingly been disbarred and disclaimed from other finding it's key source and utilitizing it.
It is also the vast reason witches were hunted and destroyed by the power of Rulers in Europe.

I would welcome support articles RM. I would like to read more.

There are many online articles that leaving absoultely running in circles trying to figure out information.
However the U.S. Library of Congress holds some of the vast ancient texts, unfortunately writting in ancient Latin, and takes years of transcribing to base the theories into format.
There are also hidden words written in every form of all bibles that Are profound when taking a more indepth look at them. Thus far I've only managed to transcribe about five books of the bible, and working on the remainder to see if there is any corilation to support this power number of 13 hidden with it as well.
In relation to your request there is no one article to support, it is bits and pieces scrabbled throughout many ancient written texts that placed together that begin to make you search deeper for the reasons this number become an "Omen" so to speak.

vvSoulshroudevv do u think your grate and cool because you quote what people say put ur own beliefs and quite attacking others you and alot of people are acting pretty tough when ur across a computer screen. im not mysterious ill openingly talk about wicca to anyone who asks its just the number 13 is stronger than you think so before you open your mouth do some research there buddy. Best to let people think your stupid than to open your mouth and prove them right.

~VoodooMan~ Writes:

"vvSoulshroudevv do u think your grate and cool because you quote what people say put ur own beliefs and quite attacking others you and alot of people are acting pretty tough when ur across a computer screen. im not mysterious ill openingly talk about wicca to anyone who asks its just the number 13 is stronger than you think so before you open your mouth do some research there buddy. Best to let people think your stupid than to open your mouth and prove them right."

I respond with:

I do not think I am great nor cool because I can quote what others say. I always put my beliefs down on screen. But, I do not attack others for what they write, I simply call them out to test their convictions. This is my way.

The number 13 is only strong when the individual puts power into it. This would be suggestive thought. I research constantly on my end. Oh, and by the by...Insults will get you no where fast.

Now, if your are quite done with nagging at me like some sort of nanny, then by all means...As you said with another poster within this thread, please show some adequette documentation pertaining to the "true power" of the number 13. I am sure the whole of the Rave is waiting in anticipation...

As much as you are in waiting for that to be revealed it shall not and will not, but for those strong enough in daring, seeking, and spending enough time in research the answer is out there. And what voodoo is referring too is the simple fact that it doesn't and will not be released to open hands that could in fact use it's key power for just anyone to grasp a hold of.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
ad Scire ad Provocare ad Libidinem ad Custodia Silentium!
ed quattuor verbum de ille Magus.
ad Provocare nos mustum Scire
ad Libidinem possidere imperium.
Requnm nos mustum Silentium.

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
To Know ; to Dare ; to Will; to keep Silent.
These are the words the four words of the Magus.
In order to Will, we must Dare, we must Will to Possess Empire.
To Reign, we must remain Silent.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
The forum is directed to your thoughts and beliefs on the number thirteen being of myth or fact in being taboo or cursed!

There for: it is not a forum to challenge and engage in indifferences, but to simply state or OWN personal belief If Any in retrospect of the number and not demand Proof of belief of opinions from others to justify their beliefs as well as their knowledge.
If every one insisted on Proof of every opinion posted, they would no longer be opinions but facts. Respecting opinions of others and Respecting their right to their own beliefs is Respecting yourself first and for most, there for gaining Respect from others.
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
"You catch more bees with honey than you ever will with salt and vinegar!"

So lets please stick to stating your opinion on the topic and not on each others remarks, opinions and comments. Or demanding "Proof" to back up thier opinion and beliefs. Thank you!

A lot of old superstitions are slowly dying out. I used to believe in a few of them myself. Now, I realize that most of them are just plain silly. =^_^=

Is Just a "number". If you analyze any number, you will match that number with some event of the past. So, my opinion, Is just a "number".

Some people do suffer from triskadesckaphobia (fear of the number 13)(sp?).....iti s superstitions as well.
Some believe it originated at the last supper, Jesus plus the other 12 equalled 13, the eve before his death.

13 in Hinduism not a bad number, raher after 13th day of death the soul is get merged into the God and goes to His Sphere. The rituals are carried all 13 days for lifting the soul to that level. Its a normal number and I think the largest no. of peepal living in the home or flat no. 13 is India and still India is progressing with great rate even though such a huge population.

In my opinion, I think ~Romamarie~ and ~Voodooman~ put the power in the number 13 just by making it that all "mysteriously dangerous" just by stating that it has hidden power to it, for some sort of ritual...Or incantation that simply does not exist.

I have been in the esoterics since a very early age. Through the arcane practices of the differant cultures...Even Voodun. So I am quite learned in the ways of the teachings, philosophies as well as numbers. So both their convictions I call out simply for the fact that there is NOTHING within the Pagan or Wiccan practices that have to do with the number 13, that is unless you have cooked up a spell yourselves and placed it within your own grimoires.

Quite with the hype already and adding suggestive thought to the thread by stating that there truly is some hidden mysterious surrounding the number 13. That is...Unless you can back it up with valid documentation!

The two of you, not to instigate drama or a "flame war"...In my view are either both full of B.S., since ~Romamarie~ has been misquoting herself since she first came aboard... Or one of the two is just leading the other on, just to see what they are made of.

Quit with the B.S. already. There are individuals on this site that do know the two of you are full of it.

if indeed you subscribe to the " Magus Pledge" then why bother avowing " mysterious powers" of thirteen at all? To imply that it is obtainable " knowledge" for any who " dare" study.. Your intent is peeking out of your Mysterious Cloak.

Call me suspicious if you must, but could the purpose of alluding to " deeper" understanding have something to do with leading people to inquire
exactly what you are claiming, as if you alone can help them navigate the number.. The only "power" the number thirteen appears to have is the power to make RomaMaria Obessessed,

[ insert trailer for the movie " 23".]

13 is just unlucky, it goes back to friday the 13th, the day the templars were betrayed by the king of france. and were distroyed.

*Raises eyebrow* Well, after I was kindly suggested into reading ~RomaMarie's~ Journal entries, they seem to suggest very arcane rites. "Such 'forbidden' knowledge should not be instituted on the Rave for others to see..." words from ~Roma~ herself.

If what she says is true about the number 13, then why does she insist on having rituals, incantations as well as other magicka within said journal?

Again, there is nothing fantastic about the number 13, no the Christians did not "steal" the pagan thunder save for certain elements such as the Christmas tree and other small tidbits...But this is very well known.

So far what I have read here is complete mumbo jumbo. Individuals should not try so hard to get others to realize how much they "think" they know.

A very good but simple lesson in the arcane arts (esoteric practices) is this: Do not under any circumstances let others know about either your casting methods, nor practices. This type of action diludes the energies from the caster.

Just then, I realized and came to my senses...If you re-read the starting post...It alludes to hidden knowledge that the poster thinks they have regarding teh number 13.

Now, if the poster actually has documented evidence relating or proving that the number 13 is taken out of context...Then why do they so adimently say they will not divulge the knowledge since it is apparently "dangerous?" This confuses me...

Why make a thread alluding to an apparent truth, unless you are willing to divulge that truth? Something smells fishy. Is this simply a tact to use to gain an audience of listeners for selfish reasons? The "eye on you" scenerio?

I could be wrong.

~Dabbler~ I do have a deeper understanding them most when it comes to arcane research. Anyone who studies as I do would have the same deeper understanding as myself...so I am nothing special.

To your question about "avowing to mystical powers" It is not I who avowed to the mystical powers. I simply wish to gain an answer regarding the reason why both ~Voodooman~ as well as ~Romamarie~ seem to act like there is something special about the number 13 in relation to its "magickal properties."

I think they are both full of it, and simply called them out on their B.S. Something tells me that they alluded to the mysteriousness of the number by instigating and suggesting that there is some sort of dark rite in the hidden mysteries of the arcane practice. Or they just wish to gain some sort of "magus" status for themselves...A self importance factor basically.

I have deducted that as well SS, I would hope I was clear in my post, you will find that it addresses the same curious bend to this Thread, consistent with other threads posted by the author.

The intent is quite clear from my viewpoint...But, I am not sure about the rest of the Raves populous, since you at times do have a way with words. I simply wished for you to add what you just did. Thank you for that.

I like the number myself and it sure seems to follow me around..born on that day(fri),car license plate is 013..address is 213,phone number is 1300 and it goes on.I have found some pretty interesting stuff about it,some which has been posted above.I do have that all posted in my journal,
Ill see if I can find it and post it here..

Ok,cant find the things I was looking for but its in there someplace.Anyway ,here is one thing about the number in frequency sense in that it plays a major part in cholinergic activation and activity in the brain. (8–13 Hz) rhythms are traditionally thought to reflect an idling brain state and are also linked to several important aspects of cognition, perception, and memory. I have often wondered about your question and really,there are alot of things about it that could very possibly have churned up some of the lore behind it..It is the state monks and shaman go into interestingly enough and
Incidently,that is the same range of Tellugic frequencies too...10 to 13.
So yeh,my guess is there might be valid reasons that 13 has gotten such a rapp in the first place.

That frequency i is associated with sleep with producing climax in women .. put two and two together.
Here are some articles you might be interested in to help those who might need /desire to read more ..

http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1998ATel...17....1W


http://www.websciences.org/cftemplate/NAPS/archives/indiv.cfm?ID=20080632

Some more reading..

http://www.raydionics.com/resonance.htm

Honorable VoodooMan and Honorable Roma Marie are intellactual class of persons thats why this thread is placed... 13 really is associated with bad happening in common western peepal while may it be new flat or house buying or regisstration of new car... the really avoid number 13. thats why this topic been raised...

Making it out to be something greater then what is accepted is fringe.. it is no wonder the stigma has lingered, everytime a concise explaination is offered people insist on further irrational conjecture, and unsupported " implications of some "deeper" matter.. no it is mote beyond evident accounts, and there are people that want the advantage, or appear to have an advantage over others.. hog wash is hog wash regardless of the fragrance.

9.0 - 13.0 - Alpha Range (according to [VUG]) - relaxed, not thinking about anything in particular, sometimes a pleasurable feeling of "floating". Often dominant in certain kinds of meditation, alpha waves have for the past twenty years been associated with calm, lucid mental states (the "alpha state"). They're also often detected during dream sleep. This pattern typically occurs in daydreaming, relaxed awareness, guided or focused imagery & smoothly rhythmic athletic activity. There's often a euphoric, effortless feeling of "flow" as the doer is absorbed in activity and subject + object are felt to be united. [VUG via DW]


It has appeared to me that is at his frequency we find ourselves communicating on a different level entirely.My research shows that it could account for esp and /or telekenetic type activities.As well as higher incidence of accidental and frequent entrainment with others and animals.

yet when people press irrational concepts on people, it is rather disturbing. If a person settled their phobia of 13, through available resources, then such unsupported advocacy for some darker implied concern is introduced it can be devastating to a person.

Though I am following your post Oceanna, and it is good to see you active again as well.

oh,forgot that link for you.As you can see there is a distinct refferance to that frequency as being not good ,while others profess differently ,as it is shown to be a frequency often put out by thunderstorms and such.So maybe its stuff like this which caused some of the stigma surrounding the number..

http://www.lunarsight.com/freq.htm
13.0 - Alleged sphincter resonance (mechanical)(not good) [TB]; Associated with Brow/Ajna chakra (Color=Indigo/Violet) (Body Parts=Pituitary,Lower Brain, Left Eye, Ears, Nose, Nervous System)(Effects=Visualization, Conceptualization)(Note=A) [OML]

13.8 - Associated with Frontal Lobes (Effects=the seventh sense, final decision) [TOS]

Thanks Dabbler..wish I could put more up for you to look at,but being on dial up,I am afraid I cant.Only stuff I directly remember and can get to it without searching.I do think however that if you follow the lead I have put here,you can see for yourself the significance..or you might even deem,the insignificance of it.
Its all in good fun anyway.

What SS , and myself address is demonstrated well by your post, you are not saying ( like the threads author is) that it is a deep esoteric truism that needs to be " censored" to avoid " dangerous" potential.

You present sources, wether they are significant or not, you are not abandoning the forum reader in " Mysterious realms".

Many of the classic superstitions have traveled through the history and have remained strong due to families pressing the subject on the youth.

Remember growing up with my Grandparents and the superstitiions they held. sometimes I just shok my head at some of them.

the 13th floor superstition has been around aalot and many who are into the buildings going up still notice the practice of skipping the floor or calling it another number.

Thanks for the infomation threads and input Oceanne and Cadrewolf. Interesting material.

~ As for SS remarks on my journal, he certainly seems complelled to spend enormous time here, bashing others for a simply posted question of a myth or fact to the number being taboo or not ~

~ there is both good and bad in the number as venumstings and others have posted. How it is perceived and utilized by others is to whether or not it is implicated as good or bad I believe. ~

~ as to knowledge, intensive research is to each in seeking the truth related to it's history ~

Is rather ignorant to think that something like a designed cognitive concept as a number to hold some sort of special charasteristic to make things/people experience something "negative" in a task, It would need to have concience to even think to bring "bad vibes", other than that is the person programed to feel fear for the numerical concept to create the "bad outcomes". I think to put power to a number is very delusional, and the people scared of it is rather paranoic, like i know the whole taboo and stories but I don't even follow or see the number and think is something to worry about, I could be in a building and click 13 floor and im sure if someone don't tell me is bad luck I wouldn't notice. Its just a number.

Roma, the " Question" you " ask" is more of a statement. You are set on your claim if esoteric fallacy, more then what others gave to present.

You could have included your research conclusion, and asked if anyone else
relates to it.. But as is you are making a statement in the form of a question.
As if yours is the only acceptable " right" answer. Yet you féin any account of your eroneous implication, this us not even your opinion you present, it us a "teaching" of the " occult" rather dodgy wouldn't you argree?

quote" there is a vast kept secret to the number, know what it is? That alone is a poll question. As if you alone can conceive the " vastness" of a number that has become rather generic, in these info on demand times we live in.

Why is it I keep expecting you to pitch some book?

~Romamarie~ I do not bow down to nanny nagging...I call individuals out on their B.S. and test their convictions as I always have and still do. The fact that you gave me an negatively insulting answer against a test of your convictions, lets me as well as others know that you seem to be side stepping the answer to the question...Which in turn lets myself as welll as others know that it still seems to be B.S.

I do not need to justify myself for you alone...

~Dabbler~ did you not look within her Journal? She does have a book within it, I am surprised she has not "pitched" advertisement to it within this thread...She does within her profile.

Here is a little something to show you what Im referring to about the thunderstorms etc..
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/journal/00219169
Study of the annual changes of global lightning distribution and frequency variations of the first Schumann resonance mode






A. P. Nickolaenko and L. M. Rabinowicz

Institute of Radio Astronomy of the Ukrainiam Academy of Sciences 4, Krasnoznamennaya Str., Kharkov, 310002, Ukraine


Revised 4 August 1994; accepted 9 August 1994. ; Available online 20 July 2000.

Abstract
From the yearly averaged diurnal variations of the first Schumann resonance frequency, corresponding changes in the area covered by global lightning were calculated and then compared with optical observations made by satellite 11 years later. The data observed are characterized by the high cross-correlation coefficient. The conclusion is that Schumann resonance frequency variations are an indicator of the thunderstorm distribution over the globe.

Article Outline

RomaMarie...~ As for SS remarks on my journal, he certainly seems complelled to spend enormous time here, bashing others for a simply posted question of a myth or fact to the number being taboo or not ~


I purused your journal entries and saw no negative or bashing remarks left by soulshroude. Why post a comment like that if it isn't true??? If his oppinions piss you off that much, then don't acknowledge him. Anyone who spends any amount of time on the forums know how he is. He states it himself. As for getting back on topic...fear of the number 13 is in my oppinion, just superstition for the most part. however I do believe in the power of numbers...13 just isn't one of them.

The building we are designing right now has the*13* floor as a maintance area for the 7 floors above. and so thus the elevator is without the dreaded number just a *M* on it. I have seen this alot in the construction side of the buildings, wether the myth of the 13th floor is valid or not people do buy into it because of the superstition surrounding it.

Sometimes the superstitions will overseed the true logic of the person. many people hold such structures in their life.

Well I only mus say here to all Honorables that when Honorable Voodooman is newbie to web forums, we must boost him so that he accustomed to forums without any ignorance. I did not see any wrong in the statement of these two respected kins and I must say when person is new to any format he may try to come up. the best way is the direct polite approah to that kin and bring the kin up to part in discussions. I must ask him what is the importance of mark or number 13 in witchcraft? I am new to witchcraft I must know this from his side if the same answer from Honorable Voodooman as Honorable SS gave, then Honorable Voodooman is truely have nice info of the number 13. and if it is different, then even better. I must say these forums should not go on personal carrying on and should not ignore others who are sincere in reading this thread due to title number 13.

I must seek the reason why the 13 days fasting is suggested time to time to summon or praise the God to bring result positively (in India).

http://www.fasting.ws/juice-fasting/fasting-stories-and-testimonies/sinus-problem-weeping-ulcers

Fasting Testimony: Ron Harrison
Water Fasting: 13 days
Weight Loss: 40 lbs.
Healed: Sinus problem, weeping ulcers on my left arm.
Location: Toronto, ON, Canada.

I have been working in the health field for thirty years. In 1962, while growing germs in the laboratory in Ryerson College, I questioned how these germs could combine to attack us. They have no means of communication and no mobility. However, if you wish to work in the health field, you accept the germ theory or work elsewhere. I got married and started building a home. Five years later, this marriage ended in an acrimonious divorce. For advancement, I took additional college courses. One of the options was sociology. This was the first time I had heard the word placebo, and when they came to demonstrate the different cultural expectations of disease, I saw clearly that germs were not the cause. This led me on a quest through health-related literature. Not much change was made in my diet until I met Elaine. This gave me the impetus not just to live a longer life, but to live it at maximum capability. I was 36 when I met Elaine and promised her 50 years, which meant I would have to live to be 86. Now, having seen my mother die at 85 in great shape on a standard diet, I have my sights set on a hundred. Then I will decide where to go from there. With this goal in mind, I started searching for the best diet to ensure high-level wellness. I traveled many blind alleys before finding natural hygiene. When I discovered Fit for Life, I also lost 40 lbs. in the same time period as Elaine. I tried several short fasts, but always went out of control about day five and had to break them. I then decided that I had no option except to have a minimum 14-day supervised water fast. My main concern was that my left biceps felt like a bag of marbles. From day three of the fast til day five, my left arm was in excruciating pain, but on day six the muscle was smooth and as fibrous as it should be.

Since age 14, I have always had acute sinus problems. I stopped the pain with aspirin, and inhibited the symptoms with codeine. This is the only drug of significance I have abused except for nicotine and caffeine, but I can still taste aspirin when I fast, indicating the cells are releasing this chemical garbage. Since that time, my only health concern has been small, weeping ulcers on my left arm and shoulder, which shows me that toxins are still trying to get out that side of my body. Having heard that we now have a Canadian fasting facility, I undertook 13 days of water fasting, preceded by three days of juice to lower my toxic load.

Each of the eight fasts I have undertaken so far have always involved vomiting because the bowels are shut down and the toxic load being sent into the stomach must be ejected. I feel it is a short-term pain for a long-term gain. The sores have closed up and the body has been lowered of its toxic load; and, we hope, they’ll stay a thing of the past. I was very gratified to note no other pain or crises, which proved to me that I have obtained a high level of wellness. It will bea very happy day for me when I can fast free of symptoms, because there is no waste to be removed.

I want to see the concrete assertion of the number13 in cotidian practice, what is the use in say "witchcraft" and what reaction invoke in something, like the author of this thread and the peers write about. If you are going to talk about special or mystical practices surrounding those digits the you have to back up assumption with factible/concrete response. Saying you don't know the powers it holds and not saying anything doesn't validate anything.

I dont quite know why is is a unlucky number.. i do know i dont like the number 13 so hey i say why chance it so i stay away fro it lol.. I also think when i was 13 years old was it is a bad year.. nah so 13 cant be that bad of a number.

I notice that most of the implications of the number thirteen are rehashes, after a summary settles the issue. People want others to be irrationally afraid, and then in response to the irrational fear, seek out those who claim to "protect" and "lift the fear" a person is lead to believe related to some abstract encounter with some " mysterious 13 curse". Like if I told you, your Bank account was 13,000 and you need to cleanse it by ritually rendering 1000 dollars. Rational people would
opt not to, but what if..

Look at all the superstitions that have plagued us, rational or irrational many buy into them for traditional values or just their belief. Yet we sit and ponder some of the things in life call them quirks others would assume superstition in value. A football player with a lucky helmet or what ever. We see it all the time.

Tiger Woods and his red shirt. explain that they are irrational in thought and they would just laugh at you.

So it is as stated a behavior quirk in people, nothing arcanic about it, it is all in the " collective conscious" then.

Your basically telling a person who excepts that their fear of number 13 was rational? And that not accepting the " what if" that they are irrational.. so don't fear 13?? But not because it is " bad luck".. That is contraditory reasoning, self canceling.

Fear has many faces Dabbler, and many can concour that fear. I did with flying, yet superstitions once rooted in the mind are hard to understand and concour, beacause it is said to be an unknow force.

Grandparents were superstitious, covering a mirrror when a death occured, black cats never cross the path even if it took you a mile out your way. I could not show them different or any one else.

superstitoon plays on the mind of others wether you believe it or not. irrational minds if you want to say that. but a strong delusion that you or me could not break.

"Thirteen is the traditional complement of a coven. This
worked out to six working couples and one leader. The
leader-plus-twelve unit is a very old tradition. We see it in the story of Jesus and the Disciples, King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, Robin Hood and his Merry Men, even Judge and Jury in American and British law."

From the following link:
http://www.skepticfiles.org/mys1/13.htm

Dig it D, Cadre, where is it said?

Unknown, so let's assume this " unknown" affects our mind, to " purge" ones mind of an " unknown" is to what?

Never Mind the Number!

Unknown what the mind does not interpete as a act of human or physical condition. But as a freak accident or caused by some unknown force,

the mind is yet determined to be well explained. superstitions of fear that someone can not explain a reasoning behind the rartional thoughts and feears the body gives off.

It is phsyiological, and behavioral, simple put if a person is raised around family members that mention ( regardless their degree of concern) a child will pick that up, and pass it on. Same as nursery rhymes, and urban legends. Always some person implying that there us a deeper meaning to something that is actually on mothballs, " Unknown" is cliché. Are you an Unknownist Cadre?

After looking into the websites posted, by vvSoulshroudevv,

Hammurabi::
directing several links related to L.W.King that noted on a black stone in Persia in 1901; the stone being dated back to 1795-1750BC. "The Code of Hammurabi" it was pertainging to laws to be obided by but law number thirteen being deleted?
The encylopedia of Hammurabi dates it back to 2342Bc, but does not list the codes in its forum at all?
The link of MRhodes@FARS.IDINC.COm that vvSoulshroudevv
posted leads to alionk of the Hammurabi from ancient babylon marked the Song of Ishtar;; Stating the thirtenth law is in reflection to "Goddess of the dead" but is also ommitted in the laws displayed.
What is it, and why won't scholars reveal it to us, is what I'm wondering?

Another link under MRhodes@FARS.IDNIC.COM
had a link that redirected you to a post titled::
Origins of Popular Superstitions by Sanguinarius.

****Before you inquire, I already checked with Sire Sanguinaruis, she is not the Author of the article****

It has many modern superstitions as to why it is feared by some ;as well as disclaiming it by others , yet one of the linked pages supplied in the article I noted a statement that worded from : Beware of Friday the Thirtenth, when I clicked on to it, an article popped up with no accredited author but in a forum post it stated 12 witches and 1 devil make a deadly combination on Friday the 13th, but gave no reference to what or how?

I still would like to know what is the rule of code under Hammurabi , that is being ommited from display of public veiw.
Especially if being disclaimed as Superstition.
Sylvia Brown wrote an entire book based on the Knights of the Templar; Free Masons; the Illuminati; Opus Dei; the Priory of Sion; the Roscrucian Order; Suppression of the Gnostics; Skull and Bones; the Bilderberg Group; the Trilateral Commission and many others entitled::Secret Societies. ISBN::978-1-4019-1675-6
The links in her book still come to a dead end in researching certain aspects in relations of this issue.
I wouldn't recommend wasting money buying her book if your interested, just check it out at a local Library, as it seems more deemed on her prattling of some what hating these groups and societies. And making remarks of cover ups that she gives no fact or forum to justify their secrecy, which isn't a secret to begin with.

That's an interesting post Doru. I'll swing by it and check it out. Thank you for the input.

Placing things in context of sources is a learning experience for all, it involves friction , and inquiry. It is appearing in this thread. I fell once into the 13 tv planet, so as the movie " 23" shows us, we are all absorbed at one time or another, when the phase is over sometimes moving onto another interpretation, perhaps even one that makes it a " good number".

i think the # 13 has a bad rep. i personally think it's my lucky number. most people have cited the origins of the mystical properties or the myth associated with the # 13.

bad or good luck; it's all a perception.

Redundant much?.. Its just a number, a number people gave a meaning regardless the conception; like your birthday, july 4th, december 25, etc.. Now people in above posts claim'd that the numbers can/might hold mystical abilities; yet no expansion of assumptions.

~Roma~, the debate was not why the number comes up as mysterious...But rather that you implied that it had something to do with a "dont do this if you dont know what you are doing" perception.

As for the almighty Sylvia Brown is full of crock anywho...She is an over-rated third level wannabe psychic that made her money off of the suggestive manipulation of others. She has been wrong on several accounts. Including the secret society conspiracy.

Once again, I will tell all that the number 13 when corresponding with the so called "secret societies"; of which have absolutely nothing in common with one another, save for a select few. as well, once again...the number when discussing these societies is only correspondant to the Knights Templar...The date Friday the 13th, 1314, and the burning at the stake of Jaques de Molay and his men by order of King Philippe IV (the fair?)of France, orchestrated by his croney Pope Clement V.

This is what most of society acknowledges as the main reason why the number 13 is so unlucky. We should all know this by now.

As far as the hammurabi, it is sort of like the law of the dead as per ancient Sumerian history. A brief summary is in the Egyptian book of the dead if you can get your hands on a copy. It is simply a law abiding toward the spirit plain and the plain of man such as king Solomon suggested within the book entitled...Greater Key of Solomon. 7 Angels, 7 Demons, 13 keys to unlock a door...the usual suspects. Most of it having to do with the old "guyana" mythos and Cthulu mythos.

Actually Voodoo no offense,but I hope they are both removed.Everyone is so busy debating and arguing about something that really has no debate..the number seems lucky for some and unlucky for others.Wheres the debate in that?And its gotten to the point where no one is paying attention to what helpful info that might be posted on the subject.
Was going to write a few things,but I think Ill just post a link you all might want to have a look at..Enjoy
http://www.nwbotanicals.org/oak/magick/createsgod.htm

Its Okay Honorable Justin and all of you are Honorable to me.

I think there is more than the brain do work...

Its subject to study that whether the vegetation too have the brain, I think the conscious is among all than the brain part... may the vegetation plants too have brain but definitely they have consciousness and prana, in absence of light few plants die and they all are living being... platelets may or may not be having brain but they do fight viruses in our body... definiely they are independent of our brain.

Honorable Voodooman,
Others did not know that thou and Honorable Roma Marie were discussing this thread at start vocally while operating different Comps. this led you to write natural way and this led a great misunderstanding to other Honorables.

This too impact is noted due to 13 worked this way :)

I am confused whether this be linked to 13 or not...

What is with the "Believe." after your post? All I read is a summary of understanding. The debate has resolved. An aknowledgement of failed sources was uncovered. As it stands it is pretty much agreed that (like holidays) 13 gained momentum in Mythos.

Science Forums when science does not find facts and explanations about the matters, the debates raised in international science forums and the most nearest assumption is finalised and accepted as hypothecation such as universe still not measured and the shape not yet found frontier could not see the shape of the universe... its decided hypothecated in international science forums...

The same with the time passage and mysterious happenings in the world....

such as the flame lit on the matters from no where in the world and lead that matter burnt... this happened in one village in India and even media peepal saw it and caught in camera. it is still unanswered and damaged clothings many time and grain storage many time during that week.

~Voodooman~ I think you may be confused...The belief in the self has virtually nothing to do with the concept of believing in a number. These are two very differant thought processes.

That being said, I have no idea why you would put the word "believe" within the thread other then the fact that all it takes is the belief in something from a personal perspective to both, make things happen...and or believe they may work.

Very borderline here on the "faith" idealism.

Honorable SS and Honorable Voodooman I think that all beliefs must be tested by science point of view. I am sure much of them will be like old wine will be served in new bottle. The explanation only will be changed such as Law of Karma (Law of Cause and Effect) established by Newton Atoms and its breaking termed as in ancient time too it mentioned. Aeroplanes took place and it mentioned in ancient time. I am not the blind believer of old beliefs but i trace the logic and reason behind the belief took place and not as critic but iindependent of critic work and independent of blind faith.

I believe in God just not coz all follow this blindly, But I know there is much more powerful than the system of control of univerce. I am searching the power who started the begining of universe and formulated this universe encoding everything with cause and effect and happenings and impacts. this can not be done by even total united human race brain power alone...

I believe in para-pschics coz I experienced it personally at my best of active conscious mind. I do not belive unless i know or see. I am not certain about the limits and shape of universe, I know the earth is globe, I know the solar system and the structures of stars and their spherical structures, I believe in there is life far from earth too. but I wish to analyse the 13 case here if peepal put more light on it by nice info. I believe in the cosmos is most mysyerious and beautiful too having so many planes and spheres and hyper spheres.

I believe in conscious and fourth dimensions, I believe in psycho-spiritual player. I am in search of such high being and wish to be in company of them.

I think belief do work...

Honorable Dabler its prevailing in Hinduism and in Hinduism the combined power of the Universe and each matter and no matters finally rest in the God along with the whole universe and universe born with the grace of the God. Geeta says when the soul elevated to his part it taken away from matters nd no matters of the universe hence the soul crossed the universe into the God.

That is practical belief, it has positive application. Irrational beliefs perpetuated ad Infinium is in noway practical. As I see in the thread some
find support for the number being either beingn, or " lucky" ( and there is a concise summary as well).

People assume I am against beliefs, I actually enjoy the company of people who have their beliefs in context. People that use their beliefs to gain
notional leverage socially are consistently abrasive, and vague, not only to skeptics, but to other believers as well.

I am not understanding your question Is it the number 13 you are refering to? I had a house I lived in a while back it had the address of 13 pells court and it was a very bad luck house was haunted, and had alot of problems there also had fire lost the house.
It is maybe because the number 13 is bad luck to some and some are superstious about it

Yes Honorable Dabler, you are true these 13 co-incidence is strange and noted in books too from even earlier to medaival age of 12th century. We mst check this phenomenon on the base of records and recent proofs or reason or logic behind the belief unless we prove that its baseless, we must treat this phenomenon as assumption.

Its very strange Honorable Karen if it happened with you, but if it happened earlier than you residing there, it removes suspense of the 13 number in case of your that house...

Karen in you cited testimony the application of thirteen provided a transferrance . What ever existing physical factors here involved where faded
in the application of " The address was 13." ergo that was why " negative" things happened at that house.

How do you accept the role of the number 13? Are you still alert for 13?

I think Revenous has an important concept here,
if you wake up on Friday the 13 believing from the start you are in for a bed day, then you actally pull that energy towards you, and most likely will.
If you percieve as just another day, which I do, then it has no impact because, I did not set out my day in that mind frame, like so many others unfortunately do on that particuliar day.
So pulling energy can make your day one way or another on your perspectives. Thank you Revenous.

vvShroudroudevv, I agree with you completely on Sylivia Brown. She made a ton of money proclaiming to be a psychic, I found it interesting that she continuously refers to finding her source though a "spirit freind"????? Found her book babbling and jumping around, and that's why I stated lean it from a library, don't waste money buying it. It contains no facts or evidence of those she bashes openly in it as conspirators.
The post of King Solomon is extremely interesting, is there a book on such that tells of this 7angels and 7 demons? If so please provide it. Thanx.
The Knights of the Templar didn't march into Jerusalem, Israel to start a fight there. They were on a quest. In search of the "Stairway to Heaven" believing it was the gateway to the Heavens. Believing the "Ark of the Covent" was there and a powerful source based on its stories surrounding it. And they wanted it.

Doru has already answered the question pertaining to "Witchcraft" in it's use. But one must practice such to believe it's works. 12 witches and 1 demon opening a circle rite of incantation. Doing so with little or no knowledge is very foolish. Just like channeling a wiija board.

That's an interesting post on a house, haunted and then burned, holding the number 13 to its address, Alphawolf. Thanx.

Thank you venoum for all the positive imput on the number and its resources to look into. Perhaps less will fear it as being bad luck if they research your teachings.

actually Oujie ( sp) boards are instilled with mystism just as the number Thirteen is. It is all a product of fear, and incitement to hysterics.

I like the statement " if you wake up .." as well.

I would go further with, if the person has a "bad string of events day", then
finds out around the evening that it was Friday and the thirteenth, depending on the persons degree if superstition they will either dismiss the whole bad day as a " cursed" day, or take it to enforce their extreme superstiotion.

~Roma~ in regards to your question: The post of King Solomon is extremely interesting, is there a book on such that tells of this 7angels and 7 demons? If so please provide it.

This is an active link in reference to the book entitled "Greater Key of Solomon", it is an online .PDF format of the book. Peruse as you desire.

Greater Key of Solomon

Now, in regards to ~Roma's~ "enlightening" historic statement:

The Knights of the Templar didn't march into Jerusalem, Israel to start a fight there. They were on a quest. In search of the "Stairway to Heaven" believing it was the gateway to the Heavens. Believing the "Ark of the Covent" was there and a powerful source based on its stories surrounding it. And they wanted it.

My reply is this:

The Templar search of a supposed "Stairway to Heaven" does need adequette references to this association. Believing that the "ark of the Covenant was there and a powerful source, is not accurate...But an assumption. The Templar's vast riches came from initiation of members throughout Europe that were required to give them their lifes riches in order to become an initiate within the order. Throughout the years, the richest exceeded even the churches expectations and therefore the church was a bit jelious about the mass riches the Templar obtained from its own initiate members. Thus Pope Clement V and his drama with King Philippe IV in the 1300's.

As far as artifact such as the Ark go, these are not related and are entirely differant stories and should not be confused with either church heiracy or conspiracy. More on the Ark later, if this thread's length allows.

Oral tradition mostly and maybe some have had misfortunes on that date and blown it all out of proportion. I have #13s on every door in home.

Thou welcome most Honorable Roma Marie...

I think more light to be put on 13, I am from eastern world. Definitely Saints such as Jesus, Musah have definitely impressed my inner. Jesus did put the example to the peepal of tolerance level and forgiveness... He is great meditator coz this level only high level meditator can achieve and he was totally surrender himself to only the extreme goodness. Any kin will love to follow him... (them). the coven and arc at such a high level, whether its like vincy or what... please put more light on this, you are explaining to this kid who is illerterate, please grow me upon this subject...

Number 13 is just a number.. I don't know why people are frightened of this number.. every day can be your last and every day you can be unlucky or whatsoever..

I have to agree with AxeLord in that it is only a number. I think events of the past instilled the fear of the number as being unlucky and to make people happy and less fearful that many hotels etc. chose not to use that as a floor number.

In response to the "hotel" remark...we have no room 13 on any of the foors either.

I believe that the Mayans thought as number 13 to be "unlucky" because it came right after 12, which was dividable by all the prime primordial numbers used by Myans (1,2,3 and 4) and because it divided only by itself and 1. Also, there were some superstitions regarding the thirteenth God and the thirteenth lunar cycle... it just didn't add up nicely!
For me, number 13 wasn't so unlucky... in fact, it was pretty awesome... The best example: I got married on Friday The Thirteenth, at 13:00 hour and on my wife's birthday, which is also 13.
13 can be unlucky only if you let it be and your belief is so strong that calls for bad energies to cause you problems.

An informative thread, which was spoiled somewhat by personalities. I consider myself well-learned, yet would never deride another, for their opinion, as I read here.

Geez, how sad [..counting seconds till this is deleted.]

I have seen that most people have these silly superstitions about the number 13 , I personally go out of my way to do things on the 13th or in the number 13 just to see what will or will not happen.,

I went looking and this is some of what I found:
* Alexander wanted to be a God and accordingly made a 13th statue on the place of his capital. He died and people considered that his will to be a 13th God (12 gods, one for each month were known) was the reason of his death. After that this number was considered as unlucky.
* According to historians, there were 13 people at Christ's Last Supper and Christ was crucified on Friday 13th. So, Friday 13th is considered as Unlucky.
for more information":

http://www.shyamsundergupta.com/unlucky13.htm

Superstitions from old that still carries SOME weight in our times. The perception of the number 13 has many folk tales to go with and why you should not use or fear that number. yet, when all is said it is just that a number, for other days in some opinions are more unlucky than the thirteenth day.

This thread has been automatically closed for length.