What's your guys opinion on Christian Witches?
Do you think it's possible to live or be that way?
DO you think it's a contradiction?
Do you simply think it cant be possible?
Witchcraft is a Practice and accepts all ages, races, religions, sex and genders. So keep that in mind with your given opinions.
Witches do not honor the Christian god not in the way that Christianity mandates that he be honored. So, no. Witchcraft is a specific religion to itself. However, I am sure there are some out there that will claim to be a Christian witch. So many want to be the square peg in the round hole. Be different. And this is just my thoughts and my personal beliefs.
I agree with Dakota using a simple prima facie argument. A person cannot serve G-d, and simultaneously serve any other deity.
The only possible consideration depends exclusively on how you define a witch.
Suppose you have a person who has accepted the gift of salvation through a profession of faith in Jesus. Let's say that this same person practices natural healing modalities such as: herbs, flower essences, essential oils, and such. Semantically speaking, this person could be considered a green witch, yet still be a Christian.
I have heard many people claim to be "Christian witches" in my years. I know what the Bible says about witchcraft so, I am always wary of such people.
I agree with ZombieLegendre. Lets take a look shall we, the bible and witchcraft:
Deuteronomy 18:9–12 says, “When you enter the land the Lord your God is giving you, do not learn to imitate the detestable ways of the nations there. Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their son or daughter in the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord.”
The penalty for practicing witchcraft under the Mosaic Law was death (Exodus 22:18; Leviticus 20:27). First Chronicles 10:13 tells us that “Saul died because he was unfaithful to the LORD; he did not keep the word of the LORD and even consulted a medium for guidance.”
To seek spirituality, knowledge, or power apart from God is idolatry, closely related to witchcraft. First Samuel 15:23 says, “For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft, and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry.”
And on Wicca, Wicca is basically a religion that is about minding your own business and living peaceably with your neighbors and environment. Wiccans are eager to draw parallels between themselves and biblical Christianity for the sake of earning credibility, but what does the Bible have to say about this religion? You won’t find the word “wicca” in the Bible, so let’s evaluate the beliefs in light of what God says about them.
Wiccan spells are idolism—Romans 1:25 says, “They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshipped and served created things, rather than the Creator…”
Personally, I call myself a Spiritual person and believe in Creator. The bible to me is the most violent book you will ever read. Down right scary.
Yes, there is much violence in the Bible. But, when has the world been non-violent? Just watch the news. In truth, man's disobedience towards God causes such violence. From the Biblical point of view.
So, a person could claim they are a Christian Witch but a true Christian that follows the teaching of the bible would not see them as a Christian. Well, that's what I think anyway.
I would tend to agree. It would be like someone claiming to be a Christian satanist.
I have read some profiles here some who say they are Christian Witches. Surprised a few have not chimed in here on this thread. I would like to read there take on this.
a true christian belief is to follow the bible and the church as for the witches we follow more of a spiritual belief some have different things that they follow for example the moon goddess as for me i follow no religion its too hypocritical for me i believe that their is mother earth and the creator if others have followed religion through the ages of how it began to the corruptness that started it would bring a greater understanding and what it has done to society through the years i can tell you this it hasn't brought much good perhaps they should have never tampered with history to begin with to prevent such i won't say any more on the matter you have my opinion and from a true witches point of view
I've never followed religion. There's a HUGE difference between relationship and religion. Those who can understand this, know what I'm talking about.
i can understand where you are coming from and i too believe that the relationship is far greater
My mother is a christian witch. I think it has a lot to do with confusion. Everyone likes the ideology of heaven. If you're going by the traditional bible it does indeed contradict itself but a lot of people take it from a very vague metaphorical perspective. Since the realm of "magic" uses karma as punishment/reward and God uses heaven and hell. Heaven sounds in some peoples imagination much more amazing. While not wanting to part with her witch-like life forbidden she goes to church and prays to god in the same breath. It's normal really from most peoples take on god who don't go to church and have never read the bible but still believe strongly on the inside of his existance
That's because the church uses "witch"-like behaviors and i'll explain since I used to be a Christian myself. There is NO difference between a guy on stage preaching to his congregation anymore than it is a Coven Mistress or Master teaching it's Coven members. Preachers will stand up there and ask God for healings or summoning the "Holy Ghost".
Summoning....prayer...chanting....where is the difference really?
Perhaps the only difference is intention.
The concept of 1 God came from one small area in the world, and that's the middle east, while nowhere else in the world was this concept found because everywhere else in the world, there were multiple Gods, Goddesses and even in the middle east we used to have, a Queen of Heaven with several names which Christians tried to eradicate because it conflicted with their belief system which was used to control and overpower the masses with it's insanity.
Bible teaches people not to practice such things, but yet, you see it every time you walk through the doors. A lot of the symbols that are used are borrowed Pagan ones. All the holidays that are celebrated were once Pagan.
To say that there are no Christian witches, lol well....if you pay attention to what they do every Sunday morning, you can see the witch in them too.
Witchcraft is not necessarily a religion. It is a practice. Wicca, however, IS a religion. All Wiccan's are witches, but not all witches are Wiccan's. You don't have to believe in a deity to be a witch. Religion is a personal thing in and of itself, so there's really no right or wrong. But if you take the literal definition of Christianity, then no, it is not possible to be a 'true' Christian, as well as a witch. But technically, the processes in the church, such as the breaking of the bread, is an old Pagan ritual, so it's 'almost', metaphorically speaking, as if Christians are practicing witchcraft themselves. Religiously, no, it is impossible to be a Christian as well as a Wiccan.
~13 years and counting practitioner of Wicca.
Breaking of bread, in the communion process, is done just as remembrance. It's not something "required", just like baptism.
As far as "summoning" the Holy Spirit, as a believer, you don't have to "summon" someone who's always right there. God is omnipresent, that is to say, He is everywhere, all the time, unlike the "gods" and "goddesses" and demons.
Preachers are not like witches because, they realize the "power" isn't theirs, it's God's and God's alone.
From the perspective of Christians you are a child of god. When you pray to god you ask the father who art in heaven for whatever you want. Where as the witchesk side of things channels power from within maybe through multiple gods but the end state is self will and belief ending in the results of what you want much like a prayer. A spell is simply a witches prayer. So the christian perspective is that god has the power not us and if you wield power that should be the lords that scares a christian who believes in the existance of both powers but leans towards god via fear. The christian witch believes in the one god everyone else does in a more vague manner. To say the bible is a reflection of gods morals is debatable. It was written by man. We do not determine gods morals only god does negating the conflict of interest from the witches perspective. Karma is the all encompassing alternate as heaven and hell. So if you prefer the vision of heaven over reincarnation or whatever else afterlife holds from your perspective this is the result.
Now i wouldn't go so far to say that gods and goddesses aren't always there, because that's far from true. They are always around because they too are simply energy, and some are reborn souls. Not that i can prove that ofc. Who really can? So if you look at entities as energy, then they too are part of "The Creator", "The Great Spirit", the "Source", and "God" as you say. Well, if God is always around, then so are they. No difference to me.
Many people are so confuse about the dogma of religion, that they don't really know who they are following. You can not follow the Sabbath and proclaim to be a christian. If you Psycho-analyze those people, you will find out that they are not normal. My two cents to the subject.
This goes back to the confusion aspect of it. Most people view God or all Gods as a being of existence much like themselves. In the story of adam and eve god created man in his own image. Which inclines humans to believe that he is a humanoid entitiy with infinite "power" vaguely defined as being able to do anything within the realm of our imaginations. As a chrisitian you believe this being is the all encompassing father of humanity. As a witch you come more from the energy perspective.
Well I agree, this is why I stress confusion. You can't rightfully follow the christian god if you practice witchcraft because it empirically states within the bible that it is indeed an act of evil and is completely contradictive. The orginal post did ask for possibility and maybe that's what we're stressing. Like you said all of these "christian witches" are self claimed. There is a vast majority of people who believe in god in the same manner as he's imaginary image but without the bibles rules made by man. Most of these people don't go to church, it's your average person. Maybe they violate the 10 commandments, but still believe in heaven. This average person doesnt' strive to understand god as detailed and envisioned by the christian majority so also practices witchcraft.
Now let's take it from an even more far fetched perspective. Let's say a christan witch understands the bible, and still chooses to live both lifestyles. Much like we all "sin" we all understand that our sins will be forgiven even before we do so. They would take witchcraft into their calculated sins and be praying for forgiveness as an endstate. They might think it's not as bad as the cheaters and the killers that have been forgiven in heaven.
MooniePie Edit: The term style is forbidden for regular members because it is a part of Premium Member coding. I fixed where it changed to forbidden.
Praying is not in any way like casting a spell or performing a ritual. Why? "Praying" is a term used for speaking with God.
A person can pray from their knees or just walking down the street. Praying is merely talking with God. Don't let the term "pray/ing" fool you.
There is no "ritual" involved.
While you might be technically correct it's the same endstate which is why we all say a spell is a witches prayer. By praying or "talking to god" that is the christian way to ask the universe or the higher power they believe can grant them anything to get what they want. While a spell is a witches way to ask the universe or the higher power they believe can grant them anything to get what they want. By definition they are very different but they are both paths to a desired endstate which is why it's commonly compared.
God isn't Santa Clause. If one only prays when they need something, they're wasting their time.
As I said, prayer to God is merely talking with God. It's no different than talking with one's best friend. Imagine how a friend would feel, if you only talked to them when you needed something.
God is also not a magical genie. He's not there merely to grant wishes.
Quote above: God isn't Santa Clause. If one only prays when they need something, they're wasting their time.
It's not a waste if it's a NEED. An unselfish act of request.
God/Gods is within all things. As above, so below.
Except the conversation is one sided. You pray for protection and maybe you pray to find the love of your life. Just you might cast a spell for protection much like the voodoo artile here on this forum. An individual is looking for a spell. Since god isn't talking to you it's much different than talking to your friend
Cinnamon draws some great comparisons between Christian faith and Witchcraft and The Catholics that light a candle to pray for someone. Holy water used to bless, protect against evil. I could see why some might then call themselves Christian. But people are going to call themselves whatever they want too. That does not make it so. My view is that one can not be a Christian Witch holding the true concept of what a Christian is from the bible. Some here call themselves immortals, does not mean they are. I have enjoyed this discussion though. Lately the forms topics and discussions have been very good.
Well granted you can't truely call yourself a christian witch without holding the values of god more so than believing in him vaguely. Under the circumstance that you follow the bible and all of it's morals but choose to sin anyways by conducting witchcraft as there is no sin unforgivable except the blatant blasphemy of the holy spirit. From this far-fetched perspective you can technically conduct witchcraft while believing in the concept of Christianity knowing that you are wrong but imminently forgiven.
It has indeed been a great conversation I'm enjoying this one along with the things we can't control.
Apparently I wasn't very clear. God isn't Santa clause...if you ONLY pray when you need something, you're wasting your time. Praying is ongoing communication with God. That is to say, it is a conversation that never ends. I couldn't imagine speaking with God ONLY when I needed something, including NEEDS.
One sided conversation? Not even close. Yes, I am stating that God does speak to me. Not audibly. But, sheep know their Shepherd's voice.
I won't speak too much on the catholic religion. As I don't accept many of their beliefs and rituals. I see it as a going away from what was originally intended.
I heard a great line once and it was merely about people who go to church just because it was how they were brought up and things like that. But, I also include those who just believe in God or a "higher power".
"Going to church or merely believing in God or a higher power doesn't make one any more of a Christian, than going to McDonald's makes one a hamburger."
One can crawl around on a fours and meow like a cat, even eat cat food out of a dish on the floor. That doesn't make them a cat.
Personally, I would be more critical of a "Christian" who claims to practice witchcraft, than a witch who claims to be a Christian.
In any case, this is the last time I will visit this thread. Apologies, wholeheartedly, if I caused any offense.
I think a prayer asking your God for a need or a want is selfish act. However, I believe there is nothing wrong in that. I prayer to Creator to keep my loved one's safe. That is a selfish need of mine that I want them alive and well. Though I know we basically should be doing the prayer 'Thou Will Be Done.' That is selfless in that we are letting go of control and giving it to our God. Just think about it for a moment... Though I am not sure how we got off topic and onto how to pray to gods and what is acceptable and not in prayers... and ZombieLegendre, I enjoyed your post, sorry you are leaving the debate.
(thought you should know a little on the history side along with how other countries still view witches) witches usually pray to many different gods rather than just one the history of them both is interesting considering most christian's killed tortured (problem is people in general just wanted it to end so they said anything even admitting what they are not) some of it was all because it took away from what they believed including the popularity, everyone wants to have it all so in some areas if you want to be a witch or christian technically you can not be both it is still practiced in some area if you are a witch christian's of these area will kill you even if it is gossip and most during that time was just because of someone accusing another only in the united stated its different which is why this discussion is more interesting in my eyes perhaps a evolution to some things, new ways, or ideas for now i will continue to read up take care
There have been allot of interesting arguments in this thread. Some curious pseudo historical facts, and insight regarding individual beliefs concerning witchcraft, and religon. That being said the question posed about Christian witches is pretty simple to answer once you view certain facts as they are without them being colored by individual perspective.
To practice witchcraft is against Christian doctrine. "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" is the biblical passage which forms the basis for the doctrine. Knowing this it is clear that witchcraft is not something a Christian is allowed to practice.
Witchcraft, or Wicca as it is practiced today embraces many different spiritual traditions. The main tradition being used depends upon the practitioner. In theory then it is quite possible for a Wiccan to incorporate elements of Christianity into their own personal practice.
However ultimately these are two diametrically opposite belief systems. A Wiccan does not typically believe in concepts such as sin, heaven, or hell. A Christian on the other hand most certainly does.
In my own personal experience I have found most who consider themselves Christian witches are individuals who were brought with Christianity, and wanted to stop practicing it when they found Wicca. However they were so overcome by guilt because of their Christian background that they simply added Christian elements to their own personal form of Wicca.
In all actuality with all of that being said I would conclude that one can be Wiccan, Christian, or some combination of both that would ultimately belong in its own category all together.
![]() KatriannexVeldonxDrakul Great Sire (113) Posts: 2,015 Honor: 0 [ Give / Take ] |
OK let me put my $.02 in.
First off when the bible was written, it during the time of Constantine.
He had a mother who was pagan, but what changed his ways was that he had won a battle after he had a vision of a cross. After that, he called together many priests to interpret the scrolls that were found to create what we call the bible today, however he dictated which books would go into it. There are other books and letters that are not included in the bible, so how are we to say that the bible is the word considering it was interpreted by man and made by man.
That being said, early judeo-christian beliefs indeed followed with this in mind:
"The foregoing principles lead us to a criterion through which religions may be judged. Too much religion, especially theistic religion, is characterized by intolerance based upon belief. The message is: Believe what I believe, or God will reject you and throw you out of the kingdom. Such religion is contrary to love, and therefore denies the goodness that is God’s essence.
There is only one simple criterion by which any religion may be judged: does it lead its adherents in the direction of non-self-interested love? If it does, then it should be respected. If it does not, then there is a better way. Doctrinal distinctions are secondary, and of no importance when the time comes for us to account for how we have stewarded the resources with which God has entrusted and blessed us.
Any religion that encourages intolerance, that sets itself up as the only way to salvation, that preaches God’s rejection of those who believe differently regardless of their hearts and deeds, does not have the true spirit of love and cannot be a true path."
ref:
http://www.judeochristianity.org/judeochristianity_principles.htm
It can be said that as all denominations cover such a wide range of beliefs that it is obvious that many people can call themselves a Christian because they're bound to share some beliefs with some denominations. But, merely knowing that they call themselves a Christian gives us very little actual information about their beliefs, as Christianity is such a diverse religion.
If you go back far enough, Christian history is actually pagan history.
"Elements common to all types of the Christian religion that were common in previous Pagan mystery religions include much of the religious content of Christianity. All elements of Jesus' life such as the events around his birth, death and ministry were already parts of the myths surrounding other god-men of the time. Peripheral elements such as there being twelve disciples were similarly present in other more ancient religions and sometimes with an astonishing amount of duplication. First century critics of Christianity voiced accusations that Christianity was nothing but another copy of common religions."
ref: http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/christianity_historical.html
Who are we to judge someone calls themselves a Christian Witch based upon what I referenced above?
Here is something else to think on:
In the Greco-Roman world, from where Christianity later flourished, the most dominant cult (1000 BC) of a savior nailed upon a crucifix was that also of the pagan fertility god Osiris-Dionysus who suffered persecution, died, and then rose again from the dead. Only was it until the late 5th century that genuine portrayals of Jesus on a crucifix were found, as before this time however, artifacts had all but depicted Jesus as the fish, or as the shepherd, but never on a Cross.
I know plenty of "Christian" Esoteric Practitioners. I don't necessarily like the term "witch..." as it is a bit derogatory in my perspective. It's like calling a Northlander a "viking".
most of those orthodox practitioners, they go to church... they have altars at their houses, they just practice a bit differently. Candles, Incense, Rites and Rituals... typical invocations and incantations.
In my opinion, there's really nothing wrong with anyone of any belief system or theological practice, taking an optional road for the benefit of their own "spiritual" being. Most of the roads ultimately lead to the same path, anyway as EVERYTHING is ALWAYS and inevitably connected. No matter what path, it always leads back to the Source.
....as long you keep the dogma created by organized religions away from your belief. They and their rules, can make your belief, crumble, like a deck of cards...
What I am about to say is not on the topic of witches, however it does discuss about druidism, which is pretty much the same principles, only differnce is their main holy days are celebrated with the sun instead of the moon...
One of the unusual attributes of Druidry is that it has links with both Paganism and Christianity. One of the most important tasks that face us today is one of reconciliation, whether that be between differing political or religious positions. Rather than polarising the Pagan and Christian viewpoints, Druidry serves a vital role in bridge-building between the different traditions, and Druidism has members of many faiths, including Christian.
Although the ancient Druids flourished before the arrival of Christianity in western Europe, ever since the period of the Druid Revival, about three hundred years ago, Christians have been interested in Druidism, and some have found that following Druidry can enhance their appreciation of Christianity.
In the early part of the last century Druids became interested in Universalism - the idea that there are certain universal truths reflected in all religions. This idea also preoccupied Theosophists. The Chief of the Ancient Druid Order was involved in the Universalist Church, just as the Druid Iolo Morganwg was involved in helping promote Unitarianism more than a century earlier. Later these two churches merged and today represent the most liberal and open-minded of all Christian movements, even facilitating Pagan meetings and ceremonies in their churches.
A number of members of the Order consider themselves Christian and find no conflict in following the Order's course and practicing their faith. Although some Pagans believe Druidry and Christianity to be incompatible, due to the repressive and patriarchal attitudes and behaviour of certain forms of Christianity, others are interested in the common ground they share.
Ref: http://www.druidry.org/about-us/frequently-asked-questions